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topic 30932

Ion Exchange / DM plant calculations



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A discussion started in 2004 & continuing through 2017

December 26, 2013

Q. Good Evening Sir,
In our softening plant we regenerate resin with 16% Sodium Chloride, same as how much qty of Sodium Hydroxide, Hydrochloric acid want to regenerate for Cation and anion resin. Kindly share with me.

Regards,
Yuvaraj.

Yuva Raj
- Komarapalayam, Namakkal District, Tamilnadu, India


December 26, 2013

A. Hi Yuva. I can't understand your question ... can you re-word it with a little more length?

I am probably misunderstanding you, but although you can use sodium chloride for removing water hardness (the sodium replaces calcium and magnesium), you can't regenerate dual bed (cation and anion), or mixed bed ion exchangers with sodium chloride. You must use a hydroxide (like the sodium hydroxide you mentioned) to provide OH- ions, and an acid (like the hydrochloric acid you mentioned) to provide the H+ ions. Good luck.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey


December 29, 2013

Q. Good morning sir,
For cationic and anionic resin we regenerate with Sodium hydroxide and Hydrochloric acid. My question is how much quantity of sodium hydroxide and hydrochloric acid is needed for regeneration of each resin. For example, in softening plant of 100 liters resin we should regenerate 16 kg sodium chloride.

Regards,
Yuvaraj.

Yuva Raj [returning]
- Komarapalayam, Tamilnadu, India


December 30, 2013

A. For on-site regenerated systems, 4% HCl and 4% NaOH are typically used at a dosage of approximately 4 pounds (100% basis) of chemical per cubic foot (for counter-current systems).

For off-site regenerated cation and anion resins or co-currently regenerated systems, the strength is the same but the dosage is higher, typically about 6 pounds of chemical per cubic foot of resin.

One other note about softeners. 16% brine is more concentrated than needed. 8-10% brine at the correct dosage would be more efficient and save some salt. The dosage required depends upon whether the softener is regenerated in a co-current or counter-current manner.

Lyle Kirman
- Cleveland, Ohio USA



December 29, 2013

Q. Please tell me --

How to determine the concentration of acid or alkali as a regenerant of cation and anion resin respectively. Is there any formula in general to calculate the Baume or concentration of acid/alkali?

SACHIN VAIDYA
- Chandrapur,Maharashtra,INDIA


December 2013

Hi Sachin. Lyle Kirman's answer to Yuva Raj has been placed immediately before your question. If Lyle's response is not what you were looking for, please phrase your question in terms of what you have done and are trying to do, and write a few paragraphs describing it. I can't tell from your abstract question if you are looking for an analysis method for acid and alkali, or for conversions from one scale to another, or if you are asking what is the standard concentration of acid and alkali to use for regeneration, or if someone has sold you regeneration chemicals that you are reluctant to use without testing, or if you are trying to judge the endpoint for the regeneration based on analysis of the remains or what ... PLEASE, YOUR SITUATION -- not abstract questions. Thanks!

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey



December 30, 2013

Q. I have values as follows:-
Flow - 6 m3/ day
TDS - 1000mg/lit
COD - 57 mg/lit
SO, HOW TO CALCULATE RESIN FOR VESSEL?
I think I provided insufficient data, but still anyone know any way to calculate?

RASHMI Shaha
- PUNE, Maharashtra, India


March 10, 2014

Q. Our DM plant scheme is SAC-DG-SBA-MB
After SBA-O/l 8.5 Ph,After MB-O/l 5.7 Ph is coming
Output Ph is low; I want to raise the pH up to 6.5
What do I want to do to improve the outlet pH?

K Mathiazhahan
- Bellary,Karnataka


March 12, 2014

A. It is extremely difficult to get accurate pH measurements on high purity water. Resistivity is the best assurance that the pH is within a narrow range close to 7.0. If the resistivity of your water is > 10 Meg-Ohm, then the pH is probably > 6.5.

Lyle Kirman
- Cleveland, Ohio USA



March 26, 2014

Q. Respected sir,
I'm "jitu". I want to know about colloidal and reactive silica?
What is the use of DM water for GCV ("gross calorific value" of coal)?
When we are analysing GCV by bomb calorimeter, why do we use distilled water for QCV analysis?

jitendra tripathi
textile industries - kota, Rajasthan, India


April 8, 2014

Q. What will be the service flow in Bed volume per hour considered when I design or calculate Resin Exchange Capacity of Softener Unit?

Is it 15 BV/Hr??

DEBDAS KAR
- Kolkata,West Bengal,India


May 20, 2014

A. Hi Debdas,

15 BV/Hr looks a bit high to me. Usually my experience is 2 to 6BV/Hr (0.25 to 0.75 gpm/ft3). You may consult your resin supplier a suitable flow rate.

Regards,
David

David Shiu
David Shiu
- Singapore


May 22, 2014

A. It depends upon several factors. In residential applications, where there is a brief, but relatively high peak flow and long periods of no flow, rates of 40 BV per hour are common. This rate would not be suitable for a continuous flow. For a continuous flow rates of 5-15 BV/hour are not uncommon.

Lyle Kirman
consultant - Cleveland, Ohio



September 26, 2014

Q. Dear sir,
Our raw water parameters
pH - 7- 7.5
COND- 70 µs/cm
TDS - 40 PPM
T H - 28 PPM
Ca H- 12 PPM
Cl as CaCO3- 11.56 ppm
M-alkalinity 28 ppm
Turbidity- 4-6 ntu
Resin cation - 225H doshion
Resin Anion - FFIP

Please tell me how to calculate the ionic load, resin quantity & resin exchange capacity.

Anand Latti
Warana Power Plant - Hidkal, Karnataka, India


October 3, 2014

A. Hello Anand,

Your IX resin supplier should be happy to do this for you. For the quantity of resin needed, you will also need to tell them the flow rate that you want to operate at.

Lyle Kirman
consultant - Cleveland, Ohio



April 3, 2015

Q. What will happen if we change the place of the SBA and SAC respectively?

SATISH KUSHWAH
- Khargone, Madhya Pradesh, India


April 2015

Hi Satish. That's a question that I hope one of our knowledgeable readers will address. But I have a question for you: Why are you interested in that approach? What's the deal?

Luck and Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey


April 6, 2015

A. Satish,

If there is hardness in the water, then it will foul the anion resin and the system will not work. On the other hand if the water is completely soft, then the system will work and should make better water quality than a Cation-anion configuration, since there will be less sodium leakage.

Lyle Kirman
consultant - Cleveland, Ohio



DM Plant Regeneration water

July 7, 2015

Q. Dear Sir,

I have a query regarding the wastewater regeneration for a DM Plant.
If we have DM plant of capacity having 20 M3/Hr , then how much water will be generated for regeneration.

Thanks

Neel

Neel Tyagi
- Karnal, Haryana, India


August 26, 2015

Q. Dear Sir,

May you please elaborate the short name of FFIP & NIP resins.

Kishor Verma
- Talcher, Odisha, India


August 26, 2015

Q. The DM plant present in our factory has flow rate of 30 m3/hr, raw water TDS is 400 ppm, quantity of cationic resin is 1250 lts, resin exchange capacity is 50. What would be the ideal quantity of water required for regeneration and how much quantity of DM water can be collected between successful regenerations ?

DADI HEMANTH RAVI TEJA
ALCOHOL MANUFACTURING INDUSTRY - VISAKHAPATNAM,INDIA


August 30, 2015

Q. We are operating water treatment plant for packaged oil fired boiler approx. flow is 14 cubic meter per hour. Please tell me what should be the limit of conductivity for water at outlet of SBA And Mixed Bed.

Thanks & regards,

jiwan singh negi
- bhopal M.P. India


September 25, 2015

Q. Dear sir,
Our raw water parameters
pH - 7- 7.5
COND- 70 µs/cm
TDS - 40 PPM
T H - 28 PPM
Ca H- 12 PPM
Cl as CaCO3- 11.56 ppm
M-alkalinity 28 ppm
Turbidity- 4-6 ntu
Resin cation - 225H doshion
Resin Anion - FFIP

Flow rate - 5 m3/hr

Please tell me how to calculate the ionic load, resin quantity & resin exchange capacity.

swapnil patil
- pune, india


September 2015

thumbs up signHi Swapnil. I think you have to start with the ionic load. Lyle Kirman has told us above the long way to do the calculation and the quick way to estimate it as a check. Why not take a shot at the calculation here, or explain why you can't do the calculation he instructed. That way we'll all learn something.

Also, since you are using FFIP resin, maybe you can try to answer Kishor's query? Thanks.

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey
Striving to live "Aloha"



October 10, 2015

Q. We have 3 m^3 Mixed bed plant having infeed water of DRO(10 TDS), quantity of Cation resin is 90 Ltrs and Anion is 140 Ltrs so please provides us OBR of Plant with calculation.

Manish Patel
- Ahmedabad , Gujarat,India


October 2015

Hi Manish. Sorry, I don't know what DRO means. And are you saying that the infeed water contains 10 ppm TDS?

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey
Striving to live "Aloha"



June 16, 2016

Verbatim: i want nacl salt solution in dm water in 1 liter tds 200ppm how much grms i need to add for nacl salt can you have any calcultion?

Q. I want to use NaCl salt solution in DM water [for water softening]. For 1 liter with TDS = 200 ppm, how many grams of NaCl salt do I need to add? Can you offer any calculation?

s.manikandan samikannu
- chennai, india


June 2016

? Hi, Samikannu. I'm trying to understand your message and have posted it as I understand it. And you are saying that the incoming water has hardness which results from 200 ppm of some sort of TDS (presumably Ca and Mg and carbonates)? 200 ppm is very hard water. Please clarify. Thanks.

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey
Striving to live "Aloha"



January 23, 2017

Q. Sir we are having DM plant with OBR is 200 m3, but we are getting fluctuation like 120, 140, 160, 180.
Raw water quality is same for all cycles.
Chemical quantity also same. Please help me sir we are not getting perfect OBR.

sarvesh santhapuri
- Hyderabad, telangana, india


March 11, 2017

A. The D. M. Plant performance does not depend only on the ionic concentration of feed water. There are several factors which control the performance like regenerant concentration, contact time, water used for displacement of regenerant, quality of regenerant, faulty valves in the line, power water pressure during regeneration injection. In short, it is difficult to answer this question without knowing the problem in detail.

Prabhakar Parab
Ion Exchange (India) Limited - Hyderabad, Telangana State, / INDIA



June 9, 2017

Q. Sir, will you please describe entire method to calculate ion exchange capacity of resin.

DINESH PRADHAN
- Chhattisgarh, India


Ion Exchange Materials

June 2017

thumbs up sign Hi Dinesh. Anyone is welcome to try. But I suspect that the design of an ion exchange resin and the calculation of its ion exchange capacity is partially empirical, and involves far more than can be covered in the paragraph length responses usually offered in forums of this type. I think you'll probably have to read a book about the design of resins. But good luck.

Please try your best to describe your situation. Thanks.

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey
Striving to live "Aloha"


June 14, 2017

A. All resin manufacturers test their resins and publish their minimum capacity. However, the total capacity usually exceeds the operating capacity by a significant amount, sometimes by as much as 30%.

Lyle Kirman
consultant - Cleveland Heights



August 26, 2017

Q. Sir
In our DM plant silica slipping started from SBA unit after 20-30 m3 running while OBR is 90 m3. We have changed resin, and brine treatment of resin has also be done.

In our DM plant MB pH always remains only 6 after regeneration. Why?

karuna shanker pandey
- UP LUCKNOW INDIA



Regenerating resin with high concentration NaOH and HCl

October 5, 2017

Q. We are using Indion NIP and FFIP. The regenerant used NaOH and HCl are of 11% w/v or 10% w/w. Is this conc too high?. Their brochure suggests 4% w/v. In output we are getting high pH water around 8-9.5 after each generation. I discovered we are flushing lines with NaOH after each alternate regeneration for sanitization. Is this really necessary? Now I want pH to be near 7.

amit ag
- Mumbai, Maharashtra, India


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