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topic 22320p2

What is a Hull Cell Test, Why is it done, Where to Get a Hull Cell, p.2. of 2



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A discussion started in 2000 but continuing through 2020

1999

RFQ: Please let us know who can supply in Argentina, Hull Cell or if you have got distributors here. Thank you.

Carlos Rottgardt -
- MUNRO, BUENOS AIRES
outdated


2003

RFQ: We are looking for a Hanging Hull Cell. We have many in our shop that we purchased from McGean & Rocho, but they are no longer in the business. Please help if you have any suggestions for new or used equipment. Thank you.

Mary [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
Plating shop - West Springfield, Massachusetts
outdated


2003

RFQ: I want to buy Hull Cell Tester but I don't have any specs or part number at present can you please assist?

Thanks,

May S [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Clarkfield Pampanga, Philippines
outdated


2005

RFQ: Please give specific supplier for Hull Cell equipment here in China.

Thank you. Need it very urgently.

Joseph C [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Zhuhai, China
outdated


2005

RFQ: I am new in electroforming process and lately I encountered problems with nickel baths. I want to learn which methods can be used to test the contents (any contamination, etc.) of the baths and which information I can get by carrying out Hull Cell tests for my nickel sulfamate baths.

Does an electroformer really need that piece of equipment? Right now, by simple titration, I determine Ni++, Cl-, and boric acid concentrations of the bath. Any suggestions about those concentrations? And also any suggestions about Hull Cell test equipment suppliers in EU or USA? Thank you for your replies already.

Limec I [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
plating shop - Berlin, Germany
outdated


April 2014

A. Hi Limec. In my opinion, and the opinion of some industry icons a lot smarter than me, everyone doing any plating needs a Hull Cell for three reasons that I can think of offhand.

Firstly, and this one may apply less strongly to nickel electroforming than other plating, a Hull Cell lets you see what will happen at very high and very low current density in case a part you are making will require plating in that range.
Secondly, it helps you spot trends before you make defects -- if the good plating range is declining from one Hull Cell test to the next, you have advance notice that the problem may soon extend into the current density range you are using.
Thirdly, and this applies to everyone doing any kind of plating, you should not make additions to your tanks based on theoretical calculations. Rather, you should do a theoretical calculation, make proportional adds to the Hull Cell only, not the main bath ... and only after you have verified the results of the add do you go on to scale it up to bath size. Good luck.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E.
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
Striving to live Aloha


2007

RFQ: I am in need of a couple cadmium hull cell anodes to fit a 267 ml hull cell.

George P [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
Plating Chemical Supplier - Bedford, Ohio
outdated

----
Ed. note: The RFQs listed on this page are expired. Current RFQs are listed on our "Looking for Products & Services for Our Finishing Shop" page.



The mathematics of Hull Cells

2004

Q. For Hull Cell I need an equation to find current density at different distances of cathode.

HECTOR LONGUEIRA
- ANTOFAGASTA, II region, CHILE


2004

A. Hi Hector,

This is the formula to calculate current density for a Hull Cell panel.

c=i(5.1-5.25logx)
c= current density
i= current applied
x= distance to be measured on the panel (panel side close to anode is HCD area and side away from anode is LCD area)

Venkat Raja
- Kitchener, Ontario, Canada


2004

Q. Dear Sr. :

I have two questions about Hull cell :

Using the current density equation of the Hull cell ( C : I ( 5,1 - 5,25 log x) ), there are an infinite currents that might be used (usually described as 1, 2, and 3 A ). I Need to evaluate additives between 200 and 500 Ampere per square meter.

Q1 : Which current should I work with the hull cell.

Q2 : What time of deposition should be use.

Sincere regards.

Peter Holmes
- Antofagasta, II Region, Chile


2004

A. It might help if you would tell us about the plating bath you want to evaluate ...

James Totter
James Totter, CEF
- Tallahassee, Florida


2004

A. Dear Mr. Holmes:

You need to be more specific in your question.

Hull Cell can be applied to many electroplating processes, with different purposes.

Oscar Infante
- Santiago, Chile


2004

A. Applied current and testing time all depend on what you are testing in the Hull Cell. There are set conditions for different plating systems, details of which can be found in any reputable book that discusses the Hull Cell. Try The Canning Handbook. No one can answer your query unless you say what you are doing.

trevor crichton
Trevor Crichton
R&D practical scientist
Chesham, Bucks, UK



2005

Q. How do you read the hull cell ruler? It is stated from the ruler that it has 1, 3, 5 Amps. how much time should you use?1 min or more?

We are currently using SnPb chemistry for IC packaging. I'm a bit confused as to how to read the ruler. I'm currently using 3 Amps 2 min. when I read the result using the ruler, I use the 3 amp portion and multiply the Current Density by 2 -- is this right? We are using 10-20 ASD meco plating machine.

I hope you guys can answer this question the soonest. Thanks in advance!

Michael Tongson
semiconductors - Laguna, Philippines


December 19, 2011

A. Hello,
Hull-cell current to be employed depends on the type of plating you are investigating and the average current density and maximum operating current density you are likely to encounter in the production tank.The purpose of the Hull cell experiment is to know the plating quality at different current densities in single test. Generally,for vat plating it is customary to use 5 amps and 10 minutes to get the test result. 5 amps will give a range of 0-200 amps/sq. ft current density.This range, I think, will be sufficient for most of the decorative or commercially useful applications.
Good Luck!
Ramajayam

Subramanian Ramajayam
Subramanian Ramajayam
consultant - Bangalore, India


September 15, 2008

Q. Dear sir/ma'm

I am pursuing research in alloy electrodeposition. In this regard I would like to know the theory of 267 cc Hull cell equation c = I(5.1-5.24logx) in terms of either simple mathematical simulation or trigonometrically.

M Kanagasabapathy
Research scholar - Rajapalayam, Tamilnadu & India


September 30, 2008

A. The Hull Cell was invented by RO Hull and a paper was published in 1939 by him about it. I suggest you track down this paper as it may well describe the mathematics behind the system. There is also a book called The Hull Cell by Walter Nohse; this was published in 1966 by Robert Draper, Teddington. Again this may well contain the math you require.

The actual math is quite easy to work out once you have understood the principles of the cell, but it is made even easier by computational modeling; so if you cannot track down the above texts, you may want to attempt solving it yourself.

trevor crichton
Trevor Crichton
R&D practical scientist
Chesham, Bucks, UK


October 1, 2008

A. Try this site: http://www.springerlink.com/content/x118154920626732/
for "Primary current distribution in the Hull cell and related trapezoidal geometries". Quite possibly deeper than you need.
Jim

James Watts
- Navarre, Florida


April 15, 2012

Q. Hello Sir,

I am doing my deposition of copper using Comsol Software. How can we convert the current intensity in terms of dm^2 ?

Lohith Pemmasani
- Furtwangen, Germany



April 23, 2014 -- this entry appended to this thread by editor in lieu of spawning a duplicative thread

Q. Hello,
I am a student in chemical engineering and I am doing a research on Hull Cell Testing.
And I need informations on how it works, like the operative methods, and how to analyse the results, so if you can write it to me or give me some links about it, I will be very thankful.
Thank you

jack boston
- Paris, France


April 2014

A. Hello Jack. We appended your inquiry to a long and interesting thread on the subject. So please read it and think about what you would like to research in particular, then ask a specific question and we'll try to help. Good luck.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E.
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
Striving to live Aloha


March 29, 2017

Try

Larry King Corp

I did business with them for years. They sell the cells, the flat panel cathodes, and anodes.

You can make your own 500 ml Hull cell. I did. Check out the dimensions and get the plexiglass pieces cut. Plexiglass is very easy to join with solvent cement.

dave wichern
Dave Wichern
Consultant - The Bronx, New York



March 28, 2017

Q. In a Hull Cell can I use as a cathode a part (not flat) that needs to be coated?

Julia Savchenko
- Austin, Texas, USA


March 2017

A. Hi Julia. No, certainly not.

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
Aloha -- an idea worth spreading


March 29, 2017

Q. The part that I need to coat is magnet NdFeB; can I use cathode made out of NdFeB in a Hull Cell or in a Rotating Cylindrical Hull Cell? Thank you!

Julia Savchenko [returning]
- Austin, Texas, USA


March 2017

A. Hi again. I guess you are not asking about using a hull cell for the purpose it was intended (as a testing device), but simply using it as a small general purpose electroplating tank for your magnet ...

It's not ideal for that for a few reasons, including the fact that a hull cell is designed to plate only one side of an item rather than both sides. I think you'd be better off using a glass beaker so you can put an anode on each side of the cathode and so you can more easily use a magnetic stirrer for agitation. Good luck.

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
Aloha -- an idea worth spreading


March 30, 2017

thumbs up sign Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions.

Julia Savchenko [returning]
Urban Mining - Austin, Texas, USA


March 31, 2017

A. I would use a plastic polyethylene shoebox as a plating tank.

I'm not clear on what is being plated here. I was plating Cu and I used 3/8" copper tubing as anodes. I flattened little sections at one end, drilled holes, and joined them to the mickey mouse "busbar" with brass screws. Worked fine.

Ni would be tougher. Anodes there are generally Ni "crowns" and you would have to have some kind of conductive anode basket to contain them.

dave wichern
Dave Wichern
Consultant - The Bronx, New York



November 1, 2017

Q. Hello, I'm about to start an experiment about analysing the thickness distribution of an electrolytic bath, I'm looking for information about different cells that I could use in the lab, but can't seem to find information about cells but Hull's. Does anybody know where I can find this kind of information, or suggest any cell suitable for this experiment?
Thank you in advance.

Ricardo Escobedo
- Sonora, Mexico


November 2017

A. Hi Ricardo, there are many styles of Hull Cells including perforated hanging hull cells (for use within a plating tank), double size (534 ml) cells, 1000 ml cells, and "jiggle cells". There is also a different kind of test cell calling a Haring or Haring-Blum cell which is used to measure throwing power; but which can be used for thickness distribution measurements as well.

But it seems to me that a Hull Cell is the ideal tool for thickness distribution determinations. There are youtube videos specifically about this; here is one courtesy of EPI (Electrochemical Products Inc.) [a finishing.com supporting advertiser]...

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
Aloha -- an idea worth spreading



May 25, 2020

Q. Hello,
I have a Hull cell in my lab (around 267 ml cell, I think). I am trying to perform Hull cell tests with some nickel baths. My Hull cell plate has an immersed surface of 50 cm2 (5 x 10 cm). My bath works at 1.5 A/dm2. How many amperes should I use : 1.5 x 0.5 = 0.75 A. Is it correct? I have seen that we should use 1, 2 or 5 A with use cell (as noted in many hull cell ruler). What is right?
Another question, I have forgotten my Hull cell ruler. Is it possible to draw/create my own Hull cell ruler? How to do it? Could you help me please?

Thank you in advance
Best Regards

Thomas

Thomas Perrier
- Berne, Switzerland


May 2020

Hi Thomas.

adv.
Download the EPI Finishing Utility app and you'll have your ruler, plus other stuff :-)

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
Aloha -- an idea worth spreading


May 29, 2020

Q. Hello,

Thank you Ted for your reply! This app looks great but unfortunately impossible to download it on my phone or tablet: This app is not available in your country :(

I will try to construct my own Hull scale. If someone can help me to construct my Hull scale, let me know please. I need to know the current density distribution on the Hull cell pate. And about the current to use, can we use whatever we want or is it advise to use 1, 2 or 5 A as specified in the Hull cell ruler?

Thank you in advance

Thomas Perrier
- Berne, Switzerland


May 29, 2020

A. Go to google.com - images - and search for hull cell ruler pdf and you will get a lot of choices. Even in the restrictive climate in the EU that shouldn't be a problem.

tom_rochester
Tom Rochester
Plating Systems & Technologies, Inc.  
supporting advertiser
Jackson, Michigan, USA
plating systems & technologies banner ad


June 4, 2020

Q. Hello,

Thank you Tom for your suggestion! Good idea, I had not thought about it!
I saw this formula in this thread :
c=i(5.1-5.25logx)
c= current density
i= current applied
x= distance to be measured on the panel (panel side close to anode is HCD area and side away from anode is LCD area)

What are the units in this formula?

Do you think I can use it to construct my own Hull cell ruler? But with this formula, current density will be infinity at x = 0, possible??

Thank you,
Best Regards

Thomas Perrier
- Berne, Switzerland


June 2020

A. Hi Thomas. I don't have the reference which offers that equation, but it seems to be more of a "curve-fitting" formula than a derivation based on first principles.
Current density is most often expressed in A/dm2, and it must be in this case because were it measured in A/m2 or A/cm2 the current density would be 100X lower or 100X higher, and that sounds unreasonable.

Since a Hull Cell panel is 10 cm long, and log10 = 1, x must be measured in centimeters. At a current of 1 amp then,
CD at 1 cm from HCD end is 5.10 A/dm2
CD at 5 cm from HCD end is 1.43 A/dm2
CD at 8 cm from HCD end is 0.36 A/dm2
CD at 9 cm from HCD end is 0.09 A/dm2.

My limited understanding is that the formula is considered valid and usable only between 1 and 8 cm from the HCD end, so the fact that log0 is undefined and approaches negative infinity doesn't matter.

Luck and Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
Aloha -- an idea worth spreading


June 9, 2020

thumbs up sign Hello,

Thank you Ted for your comments! I will try to construct my own Hull cell ruler with this formula.

Best Reagards

Thomas Perrier [returning]
- Berne, Switzerland

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