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topic 22320

What is a Hull Cell Test, Why is it done, Where to Get a Hull Cell

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A discussion started in 2000 & continuing through 2017 . . .

(2000)

Q. Does anyone have the ISDN code for R.O. Hull's "little book"?

John Persaud
- Reading, UK


(2002)

Q. I am looking for a book and a booklet. I would appreciate any information that anyone has about either or both of these publications.

The book is called "The Hull Cell." I think it was written by a woman. It had a lot of tips and instructions for using the Hull Cell. It even had a Hull Cell ruler bound into the spine of the book on a piece of ribbon!

The second is a booklet published by a vendor. I don't remember the vendor, but the booklet was a very nice presentation about the history of the beginnings of electroplating. It has a glossy white cover and is called "From Faraday to Frog Legs." There are short paragraphs on Volta, Ampere, Sir Humphrey Davies and Michael Faraday. The booklet is illustrated with really cute line drawings. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Sue Jones
- Canyon Country, California


(2002)

A. Marilyn K. Sanicky worked for McGean Rohco and did a series of articles on the Hull Cell. I think they were carried in Metal Finishing or that other publication. Perhaps they can sell you copies of the series. It was very good! She has retired from McGean (which may have since merged into something else).

Jon Quirt
- Fridley, Minnesota


The Hull Cell
by Walter Nohse

(2002)

A. "The Hull Cell" must have been a very popular title. There is a book of this title by Walter Nohse, published by Robert Draper of Teddington UK in 1966, It was translated from the original text (presumably German) by staff of "Electroplating and Metal Finishing" =>

I cannot vouch for the cover, as I haven't seen one with a fly cover intact.

----
Ed. note: See Sjamp Van Esch's reply below for the original German version.


trevor crichton
Trevor Crichton
R&D practical scientist
Chesham, Bucks, UK



To minimize searching and offer multiple viewpoints, we combined multiple threads into the dialog you're viewing. Please forgive any resultant repetition.



(2004)

Q. What's the simplest meaning of Hull Cell test? And also its purpose?

Thank you very much in advance for the information.

Juliana Marie Bustamante
electronics - Cavite, Philippines


(2004)

A. A Hull Cell is miniature plating tank that is carefully designed to assist the user in the analysis and troubleshooting of plating problems.

The simplest variety is 267 ml in volume and trapezoidal in shape from a bird's eye view. The anode plate and cathode test panel are placed along the non-parallel sides so that the current density on the test panel ranges all the way from lower than real parts would ever see to higher than real parts would ever see. Solution adjustments are tried out in the Hull Cell before being applied to the production tank.

Ted Mooney, finishing.com Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey


(2003)

Q. Our company is one of the largest Electroplating Rectifier manufacturers and exporters in Turkey. I am searching for documents about Hull Cell, to give enough information to electroplaters, (especially Sedusky & Mohler's "The Hull Cell" article, R.O. Technical Bulletin No. 404), but cannot find any except McGean-Rohco Inc.'s article dated 08/1997. I also want to buy a detailed book about Hull Cell Test -- searched but did not find. Please help me about these two matters. Where can I get that article and the book from? Already now thanks for your aid.

Alper Onsavas
- Istanbul, Turkey


(2003)

A. Maybe this book is something for you: "Die Untersuchung galvanischer Bader in der Hull-Zelle", it's written by Walter Nohse, ISBN-Nr 3-87480-016-4. You can order via internet from the publisher "Leuze Verlag" www.leuze-verlag.de

Kind regards,

Sjamp van Esch
Sjamp van Esch
- Eindhoven, The Netherlands


(2004)

A. I am responding to Mr. Alper Onsavas of Istanbul, Turkey (2003) who was interested in articles about the Hull Cell. Mr. Alper, did you find the articles you needed? My grandfather, Richard O. Hull was the inventor of the Hull Cell and I would be most happy to provide you with needed research information about the Hull Cell, if you still are in need of same.

Kathleen A. Hull
- Westfield, New Jersey, U.S. A.


(2004)

Q. Kathleen A. Hull, is it possible to supply me with the inside dimensions (millimeters) of the 1000 ml Hull Cell? Sincerely Tommy

Tommy van Rensburg
- Vanderbijlpark, Gauteng, RSA

----
Ed. note: The AESF Training Course book reveals that the test panel is 5" x 3-1/4" but doesn't give the actual dimension of the cells needed to accommodate them. Obviously the volume is 1000 mL


(2004)

Q. Kathleen Hull, mind if you can discuss to me how the hull cell scale (or ruler) is used and how can we interpret the result ... how do you determine the which part of the brass panel is within the boundary of our plating specs? we are using 10 - 30 ASD for our plating line. Also, I can't seem to figure out how much current and how long should I plate the brass panel we have..any recommended amount of current and time?

thanks in advance!

Michael Andrew Tongson
semiconductors - Laguna, Philippines


(2007)

Q. Kathleen A. Hull,
I am in need of Hull Cell information and would greatly appreciate it if you would provide me with information as to where I may obtain this information. I am new to electroforming and am eager to learn. Thank you.

Jack Honore III
- Robbinsville, New Jersey, USA


(2004)

Q. I'm a new employee and can't seem to find our manual for the Hull Cell. Can you please explain to me the procedure. How long should we plate the panel, how much current? If you can also give a website that has data on Hull Cell analysis, such as pictures of high metal contamination or low brighteners, etc. would really appreciate it. thanks!

Michae Andrew Tongson
semiconductor - Cabuyao. Laguna


(2004)

A. Hi Michae. I doubt that you'll find such a website because the Hull Cell is such a versatile tool and is used for so many different plating solutions, and in such different ways for them -- but a good on-line link is offered by Reza Esmaelli just below. And you could buy the "Hull Cell CD" from www.nasf.org. Tell us what metal you are plating please. Good luck.

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey



(2004)

Q. I'd like to receive information on how to set up, use and interpret the results of a Hull Cell.

Daniel Doom
- Wichita, Kansas, USA


(2005)

A. For Hull cell test you can see the links below:

http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/volvi/hullcell.htm

http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/volvi/hullcell2.htm

Reza Esmaeili
- Tehran, Iran


(2005)

Q. I am urgently looking for the inside dimensions of the 1000 ml Hull Cell. Can anyone help me with this please.

Tommy van Rensburg [returning]
Self - South Africa


May 27, 2008

A. THE STANDARD HULL CELL PANEL IS 75MM X 100 MM LONG BUT MANY OTHERS SIZES ALSO EXIST.
70 X 100, 70 X 200, 37 X 150 TO NAME A FEW

Paul Kelly
OSSIAN - Cork


November 30, 2008

A. In the book "Modern Electroplating" , author: Green,
you will find a good description of the principles of the two types of current distribution:

Primary and secondary. The primary is theoretical, based on the geometry of the cell with electrodes. The secondary is experimental, including the effects of the overvoltages at both electrodes. These overvoltages make the distribution more equal over the electrodes.
A third affect occurs when the current efficiencies depend on the current density.
These three effects together result in the effective product distribution over the surfaces.

Harry Zeilmaker
advisor surface treatments - Eindhoven, the Netherlands



Need Hull Cells or Component Parts

(1998)

RFQ: I am looking for someone that can tell me where I can purchase a Hull cell.

If you know of a company that I can contact, let me know.

Thanks,
Frank

Frank Steinert
packaging
outdated


(1998)

A. There is a supplier in Taiwan called Giant Chemicals.

Ricks Lam
- Hong Kong


(1998)

RFQ: I have been searching for information on manufacturers of Hull Cells. So far no luck. Can you help me....thanks

Stan B.
outdated


(1998)

A. I'd try Plating Test Cell Supply Co. (Cleveland), Mc Gean-Rohco (Cleveland), or Larry King (Jamaica, NY). There are many others, I'm sure.

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey


(1998)

A. Kocour in Chicago is another source of Hull Cells and related supplies.

Ken Lemke
Ken Lemke
Burlington, Ontario, Canada


(2000)

A. I have an address for you here in the States: Kocour Company 4800 South St. Louis Avenue Chicago, Illinois 60632 U.S.A.
In Denmark: Galvano Teknik A/S ÿsterhÂbsvej 85D, DK-8700 Horsens.

Hans Henrik Larsen
- Denmark


(2001)

A. Frank,

Just for your information and anyone else who is interested I thought I would pass this on. It is correctly stated that you can get a Hull Cell from McGean-Rohco. I would like to point out to all that the Rohco in the name is the former R.O. HULL COMPANY the inventor of the Hull Cell, R.O. Hull.

Hope this info is helpful for others in the future.

Charlie Zipprich
- Winston-Salem, North Carolina


(1997)

A. Don't make big research . Every Plastic craftsman can do the job for you . Give him the exact sizes you need and he will do the job for you.

yehuda blau
Yehuda Blau
YB Plating Engineering and Quality - Haifa Israel


(1997)

I don't know, Yehuda. It seems like there may be less research involved in coming up with the name of a manufacturer than in trying to find the exact sizes you need :-)

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey


(1997)

I agree with Ted, it is not a do it yourself job.We tried to do it on our own once and tiny differences in measurements of the cell produced big differences in results.

sara michaeli
sara michaeli signature 
Sara Michaeli
chemical process supplier
Tel-Aviv, Israel



(1999)

Apparently a 10 ml variation in electrolyte can make a vast difference to results. I made a 267 ml cell and achieved good quality plating from this.

Don Stewart
- Scotland


(1997)

!! In linking this letter to another, I happened to read the responses, and Sarah's is the most interesting from a scientific perspective. It indicates, to me at least, that I should be careful when setting up a line to plate a new item. In other words, field trials of:

... are necessary to make sure that you have the proper current distribution.

I would like to know more about the tolerance of the Hull Cell needed to make for accurate measurements. And does R.O. Hull's little book mention this problem?

tom pullizzi monitor
Tom Pullizzi
Falls Township,
   Pennsylvania 


(1997)

A. Tom, I thought there is a German standard for the tolerances; I will look that up. In either case the Book of Walter Nohse about the Hull Cell method doesn't give any tolerance.

Bye,
Harry

Harry van der Zanden
Harry van der Zanden
- Budapest, Hungary


(1998)

A. Hull cells are supplied by Ecograph AG Switzerland

khalid khanani
- Pakistan


(1999)

A. I HAVE BEEN BUYING ALL HULL CELL EQUIPMENT FOR THE LAST 6 YEARS FROM PLATING TEST CELL OUT OF OHIO.

JOHN ROLLINS
- FRIDLEY Minnesota


(1999)

RFQ: Please let us know who can supply in Argentina, Hull Cell or if you have got distributors here. Thank you.

Carlos Rottgardt -
- MUNRO, BUENOS AIRES
outdated


(2003)

RFQ: We are looking for a Hanging Hull Cell. We have many in our shop that we purchased from McGean & Rocho, but they are no longer in the business. Please help if you have any suggestions for new or used equipment. Thank you.

Mary [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
Plating shop - West Springfield, Massachusetts
outdated


(2003)

RFQ: I want to buy Hull Cell Tester but I don't have any specs or part number at present can you please assist?

Thanks,

May S [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Clarkfield Pampanga, Philippines
outdated


(2005)

RFQ: Please give specific supplier for Hull Cell equipment here in China.

Thank you. Need it very urgently.

Joseph C [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Zhuhai, China
outdated


(2005)

RFQ: I am new in electroforming process and lately I encountered problems with nickel baths. I want to learn which methods can be used to test the contents (any contamination, etc.) of the baths and which information I can get by carrying out Hull Cell tests for my nickel sulfamate baths.

Does an electroformer really need that piece of equipment? Right now, by simple titration, I determine Ni++, Cl-, and boric acid concentrations of the bath. Any suggestions about those concentrations? And also any suggestions about Hull Cell test equipment suppliers in EU or USA? Thank you for your replies already.

Limec I [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
plating shop - Berlin, Germany
outdated


April 2014

A. Hi Limec. In my opinion, and the opinion of some industry icons a lot smarter than me, everyone doing plating needs a Hull Cell for three reasons that I can think of offhand.

Firstly, and this one may apply less strongly to nickel electroforming than other plating, a Hull Cell lets you see what will happen at very high and very low current density in case a part you are making will require plating in that range.
Secondly, it helps you spot trends before you make defects -- if the good plating range is declining from one Hull Cell test to the next, you have advance notice that the problem may soon extend into the current density range you are using.
Thirdly, and this applies to everyone doing any kind of plating, you should not make additions to your tanks based on theoretical calculations. Rather, you should do a theoretical calculation, make proportional adds to the Hull Cell only, not the main bath ... and only after you have verified the results of the add do you go on to scale it up to bath size. Good luck.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey


(2007)

RFQ: I am in need of a couple cadmium hull cell anodes to fit a 267 ml hull cell.

George P [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
Plating Chemical Supplier - Bedford, Ohio
outdated

----
Ed. note: The RFQs listed on this page are expired. Current RFQs are listed on our "Looking for Products & Services for Our Finishing Shop" page.




The mathematics of Hull Cells

(2004)

Q. For Hull Cell I need an equation to find current density at different distances of cathode.

HECTOR LONGUEIRA
- ANTOFAGASTA, II region, CHILE


(2004)

A. Hi Hector,

This is the formula to calculate current density for a Hull Cell panel.

c=i(5.1-5.25logx)
c= current density
i= current applied
x= distance to be measured on the panel (panel side close to anode is HCD area and side away from anode is LCD area)

Venkat Raja
- Kitchener, Ontario, Canada


(2004)

Q. Dear Sr. :

I have two questions about Hull cell :

Using the current density equation of the Hull cell ( C : I ( 5,1 - 5,25 log x) ), there are an infinite currents that might be used (usually described as 1, 2, and 3 A ). I Need to evaluate additives between 200 and 500 Ampere per square meter.

Q1 : Which current should I work with the hull cell.

Q2 : What time of deposition should be use.

Sincere regards.

Peter Holmes
- Antofagasta, II Region, Chile


(2004)

A. It might help if you would tell us about the plating bath you want to evaluate ...

James Totter
James Totter, CEF
- Tallahassee, Florida


(2004)

A. Dear Mr. Holmes:

You need to be more specific in your question.

Hull Cell can be applied to many electroplating processes, with different purposes.

Oscar Infante
- Santiago, Chile


(2004)

A. Applied current and testing time all depend on what you are testing in the Hull Cell. There are set conditions for different plating systems, details of which can be found in any reputable book that discusses the Hull Cell. Try The Canning Handbook. No one can answer your query unless you say what you are doing.

Trevor Crichton
Trevor Crichton
R&D practical scientist
Chesham, Bucks, UK

(2005)

Q. How do you read the hull cell ruler? It is stated from the ruler that it has 1, 3, 5 Amps. how much time should you use?1 min or more?

We are currently using SnPb chemistry for IC packaging. I'm a bit confused as to how to read the ruler. I'm currently using 3 Amps 2 min. when I read the result using the ruler, I use the 3 amp portion and multiply the Current Density by 2 -- is this right? We are using 10-20 ASD meco plating machine.

I hope you guys can answer this question the soonest. Thanks in advance!

Michael Tongson
semiconductors - Laguna, Philippines


December 19, 2011

A. Hello,
Hull-cell current to be employed depends on the type of plating you are investigating and the average current density and maximum operating current density you are likely to encounter in the production tank.The purpose of the Hull cell experiment is to know the plating quality at different current densities in single test.Generally,for vat plating it is customary to use 5 amps and 10 minutes to get the test result. 5 amps will give a range of 0-200 amps/sq. ft current density.This range, I think, will be sufficient for most of the decorative or commercially useful applications.
Good Luck!
Ramajayam

Subramanian Ramajayam
Subramanian Ramajayam
    consultant
Bangalore, Karnataka, India



September 15, 2008

Q. Dear sir/ma'm

I am pursuing research in alloy electrodeposition. In this regard I would like to know the theory of 267 cc Hull cell equation c = I(5.1-5.24logx) in terms of either simple mathematical simulation or trigonometrically.

M Kanagasabapathy
Research scholar - Rajapalayam, Tamilnadu & India


September 30, 2008

A. The Hull Cell was invented by RO Hull and a paper was published in 1939 by him about it. I suggest you track down this paper as it may well describe the mathematics behind the system. There is also a book called The Hull Cell by Walter Nohse; this was published in 1966 by Robert Draper, Teddington. Again this may well contain the math you require.

The actual math is quite easy to work out once you have understood the principles of the cell, but it is made even easier by computational modeling; so if you cannot track down the above texts, you may want to attempt solving it yourself.

Trevor Crichton
Trevor Crichton
R&D practical scientist
Chesham, Bucks, UK

October 1, 2008

A. Try this site: http://www.springerlink.com/content/x118154920626732/
for "Primary current distribution in the Hull cell and related trapezoidal geometries". Quite possibly deeper than you need.
Jim

James Watts
- Navarre, Florida


April 15, 2012

Q. Hello Sir,

I am doing my deposition of copper using Comsol Software. How can we convert the current intensity in terms of dm^2 ?

Lohith Pemmasani
- Furtwangen, Germany



April 23, 2014 -- this entry appended to this thread by editor in lieu of spawning a duplicative thread

Q. Hello,
I am a student in chemical engineering and I am doing a research on Hull Cell Testing.
And I need informations on how it works, like the operative methods, and how to analyse the results, so if you can write it to me or give me some links about it, I will be very thankful.
Thank you

jack boston
- Paris, France


April 2014

A. Hello Jack. We appended your inquiry to a long and interesting thread on the subject. So please read it and think about what you would like to research in particular, then ask a specific question and we'll try to help. Good luck.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey


March 29, 2017

Try

Larry King Corp

I did business with them for years. They sell the cells, the flat panel cathodes, and anodes.

You can make your own 500 ml Hull cell. I did. Check out the dimensions and get the plexiglass pieces cut. Plexiglass is very easy to join with solvent cement.

dave wichern
Dave Wichern
Consultant - The Bronx, New York



March 28, 2017

Q. In a Hull Cell can I use as a cathode a part (not flat) that needs to be coated?

Julia Savchenko
- Austin, Texas, USA


March 2017

A. Hi Julia. No, certainly not.

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey
Striving to live "Aloha"


March 29, 2017

Q. The part that I need to coat is magnet NdFeB; can I use cathode made out of NdFeB in a Hull Cell or in a Rotating Cylindrical Hull Cell? Thank you!

Julia Savchenko [returning]
- Austin, Texas, USA


March 2017

A. Hi again. I guess you are not asking about using a hull cell for the purpose it was intended (as a testing device), but simply using it as a small general purpose electroplating tank for your magnet ...

It's not ideal for that for a few reasons, including the fact that a hull cell is designed to plate only one side of an item rather than both sides. I think you'd be better off using a glass beaker so you can put an anode on each side of the cathode and so you can more easily use a magnetic stirrer for agitation. Good luck.

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey
Striving to live "Aloha"


March 30, 2017

thumbs up sign Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions.

Julia Savchenko [returning]
Urban Mining - Austin, Texas, USA


March 31, 2017

A. I would use a plastic polyethylene shoebox as a plating tank.

I'm not clear on what is being plated here. I was plating Cu and I used 3/8" copper tubing as anodes. I flattened little sections at one end, drilled holes, and joined them to the mickey mouse "busbar" with brass screws. Worked fine.

Ni would be tougher. Anodes there are generally Ni "crowns" and you would have to have some kind of conductive anode basket to contain them.

dave wichern
Dave Wichern
Consultant - The Bronx, New York



November 1, 2017

Q. Hello, I'm about to start an experiment about analysing the thickness distribution of an electrolytic bath, I'm looking for information about different cells that I could use in the lab, but can't seem to find information about cells but Hull's. Does anybody know where I can find this kind of information, or suggest any cell suitable for this experiment?
Thank you in advance.

Ricardo Escobedo
- Sonora, Mexico


November 2017

A. Hi Ricardo, there are many styles of Hull Cells including perforated hanging hull cells (for use within a plating tank), double size (534 ml) cells, 1000 ml cells, and "jiggle cells". There is also a different kind of test cell calling a Haring or Haring-Blum cell which is used to measure throwing power; but which can be used for thickness distribution measurements as well.

But it seems to me that a Hull Cell is the ideal tool for thickness distribution determinations. There are youtube videos specifically about this; here is one courtesy of EPI (Electrochemical Products Inc.) [a finishing.com supporting advertiser]...

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey
Striving to live "Aloha"



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