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Iron content in hydrochloric acid

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<- Ed. note: No abstract
    questions please!
    Please tell us YOUR
    situation.   What? Huh?

March 30, 2022

Q. Good day

What can I add in a pickling bath to increase Fe content?

Mutshidzi Mulelu
- Gauteng, India



March 2022

A. Hi Mutshidzi, what do you have? Geoff explains that he simply starts with 30% old (used) pickling acid.

Luck & Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey



March 30, 2022

Q. We maintain our baths usually between 5 to 17%. However I am running on Low Fe content, I wanted to know what can I use to increase the Fe content. Thank you.

Mutshidzi Mulelu [returning]
- Gauteng, India



April 2022

A. Hi again. I'm still not sure what you're trying to do or why ... but assuming your pickle acid is HCl it would surely be easy to add Ferric Chloride or Ferrous Chloride.

Luck & Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey



August 17, 2022

Q. Good day.
A.S.J. PETER with the analytical procedure you provided for testing Fe in HCl, is it allowed to convert g/L to % without using the S.G of the HCl or you can only use g/L?

Mutshidzi Mulelu
- Germiston| Gauteng [returning]



A. Hi again, Mutshidzi. We'll try to alert A.S.J. PETER of your posting, but his posting was from 9 years ago, so we may be unable to reach him. It's true that when a concentration is expressed as a percentage it should be labeled as "% by weight" or "% by volume" and whether that percentage is based on molecular weight or a commonly used and available dilution -- in fact just yesterday we printed a complaint about that on another thread.

I see that both 50% v/v and 50% w/w sulfuric acid are widely packaged, sold, and available -- so I agree that I do not know which Mr. Peter was referring to. If he was referring to 50% v/v, yes, g/l and % would be convertable.

Luck & Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey





Closely related Q&A's, oldest first:

2004

Q. Hi,

We use a pickle tank of hydrochloric acid to etch the chain link before zinc is applied. the % is 14 to 17 percent acid to water. The iron content test that I do on the tank of acid comes out to a figure of example 3.3% so.

My question is what is too much iron content in tank and when should I change or dump some of it to get it back below the number. What is that number I have heard 4 and all the way to 7 % please give me a good figure of when acid starts to go bad after iron content rises to ?

Thank you,

Frank Oleksy
chain link - Dallas , Texas



2004

A. Gentleman,

Certainly, increase in Iron content will increase the pickling time because of the inhibition. As a rule of thumb 26 grammes per liter of iron in the pickling bath shall be fixed for discarding the bath.

Shankara Narayanan N
- Bangalore, Karnataka, India



2004

A. In galvanizing it is possible to pickle in iron-acid (hydrochloric acid with iron-content even until 180-200 g/l), depending on the temperature of the pickling. In fact it becomes Iron chloride pickling. Iron chloride dissolves iron oxides better than low iron acid. Big advantage is that you can use the pickling much longer and it is even possible to sell the old pickling acid as iron chloride. This is already practice in Western Europe !

Dolf van den Berg
Dolf van den Berg
- Leusden, The Netherlands



2004

A. Like Dolf said, Fe content is not a problem. We start our "new" tanks with about 12% HCl and this is made with about 30% old acid to get the Fe content up high enough! (balance water) We run our acid up to 220 grams per litre Iron chloride, at which time the HCl content is as low as 1%. It still pickles well at this.

geoff_crowley
Geoff Crowley
Crithwood Ltd.
Westfield, Scotland, UK
crithwood logo



2005

Q. I understand that it is possible to pickle at these elevated Iron levels (180-200 grams / liter) but how much slower is the pickling rate than lower iron concentrations around 30-50 grams / liter?

Phil Shawk
- Canton, Ohio




Analysis for iron concentration in HCl bath

2005

Q. What method of analysis do you use to determine the iron concentration in your baths?

Carla Jones
- Fredericksburg, Virginia



2005

A. We use a titrating method to check both acid and Iron concentrations. Our Acid titrant is sodium carbonate / sodium hydroxide. Our Iron titrant is Potassium Dichromate.

Phil Shawk
- Canton, Ohio




Analysis for iron concentration and HCl in pickling bath

August 8, 2012

Q. I want to measure the accurate HCl concentration of the Pickling Acid which is used for steel pickling. I did titration of the pickling acid sample with sodium carbonate by using methyl orange indicator, it turns red color to orange color as end point but the problem is that the color cannot be sharply observed as to distinguish red-orange end point is difficult.

Usually when I do titration of 0.5 M HCl solution with 0.1 N sodium carbonate solution by using methyl orange indicator at the end point the color disappears so I can easily distinguish the end point in this case, kindly tell me which indicator I should use so I can get a clearly visible end point to determine the HCl concentration in the Pickling Acid for Steel.

Or what is the most accurate or standard procedure to find out the HCl concentration and Iron content present in the HCl Pickling Bath of Steel.

What are the laboratory's procedures/method to measure Hydrochloric Acid (HCl) concentration and Iron (Fe) content present in the Pickling Acid samples of Steel Industry?

Akhtar Hussain
- Karachi, Pakistan



August 13, 2012

A. Dear Akhtar,

We use Methyl Orange as indicator in the titration to measure %HCl in pickling baths, and sodium hydroxide 1 N as a titrant in this case. If the pickling bath has much iron dissolved, the end point is when the red color disappears and you can see a green precipitate (iron) and the sample of light-yellow color...

And for the iron, we use potassium permanganate 0,1 N. This is not selective, if you have some oxidable matter in solution, you will measure it as iron and you will have an excess difference. But for qualitative matter, it is useful to know if the pickling bath can be used or must be discharged as waste.

I hope this will be useful. Best regards,

Daniel Montañés
Self-Drilling Fasteners Manufacturer - Buenos Aires



August 15, 2012

A. Yes, that endpoint is very hard to see. I have two suggestions:

1) Use very little indicator. 3 drops is plenty.

2) Titrate rapidly. The color change isn't very sharp and if you grossly overshoot you can always redo it.

dave wichern
Dave Wichern
Consultant - The Bronx, New York



December 13, 2012

Q. Sir,
What is the safe & accurate process of lab analysis to find Fe content in HCl?
How much Fe is good in 20% HCl?

Ravi Upadhyay
- Jamshedpur, Jharkhand, India



June 25, 2013

A. Analytical procedure of Iron content in HYDROCHLORIC ACID BATH,

Take 1 ml of bath solution, Add 50 ml of D.M.WATER, Add 10 ml of 50% Sulphuric Acid Titrate against with 0.1 N Potassium Permanganate. End point- Colourless to Light Pink Colour.

BURETTE READING * 5.56 = --------gm / ltr of Iron content

A.S.J. PETER
- Bangalore, India




April 27, 2015

Q. I just wanted to ask your advice on the lifespan of a pickling bath. Historically, we have always renewed the acid solution usually after 2 years, or thereabouts.
When the level of the acid drops to near 70 g/l (7%), and the iron content is around 25 g/l, we usually dispose and renew. Our solution is not heated and we have one rinse tank after the pickling tank. We are galvanizing 3m long steel sections most of the time and the steel is predominantly rust free before we pickle.
So after reading the above posts, I am now thinking that we can run our pickling tanks with a higher level of iron and not dispose and renew so often as we have done. My questions are:

What issues may we encounter if we do this? I have read that we may encounter reduced pickling times, and also an increase in dross formation in the zinc bath. Can anyone please confirm what we can expect if we ran the iron levels to say 100 g/l or above?

Phil Rudland
Legrand - Scarborough, UK




May 21, 2015

Q. We are following a lot of procedures in our company -- one of them about free acidity (% HCl) of pickle solutions. After testing, we calculate free acid content = 7.3 * y

How can we be sure of testing validity and how can we calculate free acid concentration from this test?

zainab AL-Janabi
- Saudi Arabia



June 2015

thumbs up signHi Zainab. If you are not just pulling our leg, what is "y" or what is the value of "y"? (And don't tell us y is the free acid content divided by 7.3).

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey




June 15, 2015

Q. My question is not related to finishing but I want to know whether titration can be used to find the amount of iron dissolved in let's say 10% HCl solution.
If yes, please let me know the entire procedure.

kumari sushmita
- ahmedabad,gujarat,India



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June 2015

thumbs up signHi cousin Kumari. Yes, probably. I'm not a chemist so I don't understand why the answers offered by Phil Shawk, Daniel Montañés, Dave Wichern, and A.S.J. Peter were unsatisfactory or incomplete. Perhaps you're looking for a primer on the general subject of titration?

You say this is "not related to finishing", so we must then ask: what does it relate to then? Because a critical issue for titration is usually "interferences"; you need confidence about what is NOT in a solution you are trying to titrate before you can choose a titration procedure :-)

Best of luck,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey


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