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topic 12466

Alodine 600 vs. Alodine 1200


A discussion started in 2002 but continuing through 2018

2002

Q. Dear Sirs,

What is difference between Alodine 600 and Alodine 1200 ... application? properties? Can Alodine 600 be used as alternate for Alodine 1200? Thanks for your attention.

Best regards,

Eri Rusli
- Jakarta, Indonesia


2002

A. Eri:

You sent me scampering back to the archives on this one. Some facts first:

Alodine 1200S~ Powdered Material
Spray Application
Used 6.3 lbs./100 Gallons
Temp: 70-100 degrees F.
Time: 15 Sec. to 1 minute.
Color: Light Iridescent gold to Tan, depending on aluminum alloy.

Alodine 600~ Powdered Material
Spray or Immersion Application
Used: 12.5 lbs./100 Gallons
Also: 9.9 lbs./100 Gals.(Toner 22)
Toner not used to meet Class 3 of AMS C5541 [withdrawn / link is to spec at TechStreet].
Color: Light Iridescent Gold to Tan, depending on aluminum alloy.

The differences seen are that the #600 can be applied by an immersion dip, while the #1200 is applied by spray. A toner is used with the #600 and not with the 1200S I hope this helps.

ed budman
eb sig
Ed Budman
- Pennsylvania

With deep sadness
we announce that
our friend Ed passed
away Nov. 24, 2018



2002

A. Eri,

Mr Budman is correct in his answer about the concentrations of both chemicals. But both can be used in Spray or Immersion applications. The primary difference in the two chemicals is the issue of coating weight. The Alodine 1200 will produce a heavier film than the 600 will. The Aerospace industry uses the 600 chemical on areas that require electrical bonding.

Thanks I hope this helps.

Steve Adams
- Cedar City, Utah



2004

Q. Hello,

I'm currently using Alodine 1200 for electrical bonding. According to Steve, Alodine 600 is better for this application -- but is the Alodine 600 resistant to corrosion? The equipment concerned is to be embedded in an aircraft and must resist salt spray.

Thanks

Véranith LY
equipment manufacturer - Toulouse, FRANCE


2005

A. Hello,

The Alodine 600 resists corrosion. Alodine 1200, 1200S, 1201 shall be used where maximum corrosion protection is required for surfaces to be painted or left unpainted.

Alodine 600, 1000 shall be used for corrosion protection where low electrical resistance is required and the installation and assembly it must be accomplished within 24 hour limit.

Don't forget exposed electrically bonded assemblies or installations shall be sealed.

Jose Manuel
- Sevilla, España



2007

Q. Hello,

Is there anybody who have paint adhesion problem on Alodine 1200S? Is this Alodine 1200S's nature, missed surface preparation before paint application or wrong inorganic treatment application?

Thanks for your help.

Barýþ KIRKAYAK
- Ankara, TURKIYE


March 31, 2008

A. Yes, I have faced terrible paint adhesion issues when dealing with Alodine 1200S. Would you like to know more?

Shazli RANI
SME Aerospace Malaysia - Sg Buloh, Selangor MALAYSIA



July 24, 2008

Q. What is the difference between these two treatments. In which situation do we use Alodine 1200 instead of Alodine 1200S ?

ANDRE TORTOCHAUT
product designer - FRANCE


July 26, 2008

A. Hi Andre. letter 3369 includes an explanation which should answer that immediate question. But remember that these are not dictionary words or generic terms; they are Henkel trade names -- so they mean whatever Henkel decides they mean, and that could change! Good luck.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E.
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey



July 20, 2011

Q. Our customer engineering drawing calls out Alodine 600 per BAC5719 type 1 class D, while our facility only has Alodine 1200S of BAC5719 type 1 class A. So we are wondering whether we can substitute Alodine 600 type 1 class D with Alodine 1200S type 1 class A?

Marshall Zhang
engineer in special process - Nanchang, China


simultaneous July 25, 2011

A. You absolutely cannot substitute one for the other. What you can "try" to do is to get your customer to give written permission or a waiver.
If you are given a spec to comply with, you cannot certify the product unless you comply with the spec.
10 years ago, Boeing was very reluctant to allow a substitution for anything that was in their specs.

James Watts
- Navarre, Florida


July 26, 2011

A. You cannot just substitute one product for another without first obtaining customer approval to do so. This is especially true for Aerospace applications where any change may have catastrophic effects on aircraft performance.

Saying that, Alodine 1200S may well be acceptable, but don't do anything until you get customer approval.

Brian Terry
aerospace - Yeovil, Somerset, United Kingdom



February 22, 2012

Q. Whether Alodine 600 reacts with interfaying sealant PR870 C12.
Kindly clarify.

Vadivel Sundaram
- Bangalore, India


February 22, 2012

thumbs up signHi Vadivel.

You can contact Henkel to see what they say. For a number of reasons readers are often hesitant to respond to abstract questions; so please explain the details of your situation. Thanks!

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E.
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey


August 1, 2012

A. Hello folks!

Alodine 1200S can be replaced by 600 as far as I know.

Best Regards

BEATRIZ ENRIQUEZ
- Chihuahua, Mexico



December 12, 2012

Q. Can anyone please post the required parameters of Alodine 1000 vs the Alodine 1200 as presented from the previous posts. Thank you.

Roger Palma
- Clark Freeport Zone, Pampanga, Philippines


December 12, 2012

A. Hi Roger. Alodine is a tradename for Henkel products and they are free to change the formulation, the operating parameters, or anything else at any time. Thus, although it can be interesting to get general impressions from users, we should not rely on years-old postings for operating parameters! Please request a current technical data sheet from Henkel. Good luck.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E.
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey


December 19, 2012

thumbs up signThank you for the feedback Ted. Best Regards.

Roger Palma
- Clark Freeport Zone Pampanga, Philippines



Which is more paint adhesive Alodine 600 or Alodine 1200S?

June 26, 2015

Q. Which is more paint adhesive Alodine 600 or Alodine 1200S?

basavaraj p
aerospace - india


April 13, 2017

A. All the other replies notwithstanding, I just got off the phone with Henkel Aerospace Technical Help as I had a drawing requirement of coating to the Mil-C-5541 [link is to free spec at Defense Logistics Agency, dla.mil] spec with "Alodine 600 or equivalent". The chemistry difference between the two is that the 600 has some "complex cyanides" in it that the 1200/1200S doesn't - more environmentally unfriendly.

The 600 - in either Class 3 or 1A can be sprayed, dipped or brushed. The 1200 can be sprayed, dipped, or brushed in only Class 1 work - Class 3 work must be dipped.

From the standpoint of producing the corrosion protection or electrical conductivity properties, the products are "equivalent" if recommended process times are followed. The 600 takes longer to develop the desired properties than the 1200 does.

Mike Palatas
- Gardena, California, USA


November 28, 2018

Q. I would like to apply a yellow/gold conversion coating to various aluminum suspension and drive train components. Primary objectives are both corrosion resistance and appearance. The parts are cast and extruded components. Alodine 1200 is not really doing the trick based on my test pieces.

Is there a good and easy way to clean these parts that will properly prep them for acceptance of the conversion coating? And, second question, which conversion coating would provide the best appearance and corrosion resistance?

Robert Robert Boyd
Boyd Engineering - Athens, Texas


November 2018

A. Hi Robert. There are other vendors of chromating solutions, such as Chemetall [a finishing.com supporting advertiser], Macdermid, Sur-Tec, and a number of others, but we don't recommend brands or sources (why?). Rather, I'll note that all of these vendors offers good chromate conversion chemistry.

Another thing to note, though, is that the Alodine 600 and Alodine 1200 mentioned on these pages are hexavalent and not RoHS-compatible. You may want to contact Henkel or another vendor about a more eco-friendly trivalent chromate product.

When you say Alodine 1200 is not doing what you want, odds are strong that the problem is inadequate pretreatment or process control rather than Alodine 1200 being a marginally performing product :-)

If you are not with a metal finishing company, the easiest path to a satisfactory finish may be to farm out the work; very few OEMs do their own chromate conversion coating these days. But the process sequence is usually mechanical treatment followed by non-etch alkaline cleaning, followed by etching and de-smutting before chromating. Different alloys may require different pretreatments. We have dozens of threads here about chromate conversion coatings on aluminum, including some with photographs.

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey
Striving to live "Aloha"


November 28, 2018

Q. Ted, thank you for the quick reply. This is a home shop project. The parts are from a 2012 C6 Corvette. Never tried this before, so learning as I go. I agree that prep seems to be the key. However, the transmission and the integrated transaxle are castings and completely assembled. I do not know what alloy the castings are. I am not going to disassemble them. I am therefore somewhat limited to blasting the surfaces and then chemically prepping.

Would appreciate any advice on prepping the castings however, as I indicated I do not know the alloy. The drive shaft torque tube test piece I have is an extruded tube welded to a casting. I'll keep trying things on this test piece. If I can't get the appearance I want with conversion coating I'll have to paint everything.

Robert Boyd [returning]
- Athens, Texas


November 2018

A. Hi again. If you're going to do it yourself, use a scrub brush with pumice and a little detergent for the cleaning (wear plastic/rubber gloves because a single finger print is a problem, then rinse and Alumiprep, then rinse and Alodine, then rinse and dry (better to just drip dry in a hot dry room than overheat because above 140-160 °F can be a problem.)

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey
Striving to live "Aloha"


November 29, 2018

A. Hello Robert,
There's some bad news and good news about your conversion coating project:
Bad news first. Conversion coating on castings is always going to be a bit more of a challenge due to inherent properties of castings -- the alloys will have more Si, which inhibits effective coating. That's not to say it isn't done; we do it here all the time -- it's just uglier as a finished product, and won't be as resistant to salt spray corrosion for as many hours as an extrusion type alloy coated under the same conditions. That being said, your Alumiprep step is critical in minimizing this effect. The results are likely to look different on a casting vs. an extrusion.
But the good news is that as a preparation for paint, chromate conversion coatings are fantastic! In fact, this is one of their more common applications -- and the castings we do here are almost all destined for the paint booth. Paint will adhere better, and a small scratch won't be nearly as likely to turn into a peeling mess in a few years.
So even if you don't like the look of your finished conversion coating, consider it time well spent :)
Good luck with your restoration, that's gonna be great!

rachel_mackintosh
Rachel Mackintosh
Plating Solutions Control Specialist / Industrial Metals Waste Treatment - Brattleboro, Vermont


November 2018

thumbs up sign  Excellent posting, Rachel.

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey
Striving to live "Aloha"


November 29, 2018

Eastwood Diamond Clear

Q. Rachel, Thank you very much for the info. If I can get a reasonable yellow/gold appearance my plan is to clear coat the parts with a product called "Diamond Clear". It is a "direct to metal" application so should work well and assist in long term corrosion protection.


Next step on my test parts is to try good cleaning and prep per Ted's instructions and apply Alodine 1200. After that I am going to apply the Diamond Clear. I will post pictures if it works well.

Thank you again, Robert

Robert Boyd [returning]
Boyd Engineering - Athens, Texas



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