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topic 11955 p.3

Chrome Plating Problems on Gravure Printing Cylinders/Rolls

adv.     u.s chrome


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A discussion started in 2001 but continuing through 2020

June 8, 2013 -- this entry appended to this thread by editor in lieu of spawning a duplicative thread

Q. Dear Sir/ Ma'am,

We are rotogravure cylinder manufacturer from India. We have observed very frequent issue of white cylinder worn out in very less quantity. Can someone share their experience on same and what could be solution to avoid this.

Thanks & Regards,

Parag Patel
- Gujarat, India


June 13, 2013

A. Hi Parag. We appended your inquiry to a thread about the subject which should give you plenty of food for thought. If any comments sounds promising but need clarification for your particular case, please let us know. Thanks.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E.
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
Striving to live Aloha


September 22, 2013

A. Hi Parag,

white inks are usually the most abrasive inks and require bit more attention regarding print settings and surface finishing of rotogravure cylinders.

Dominik Michalek
- Epping, VIC, Australia



September 17, 2013

Q. Good Day,

Regarding question about scum moisture problem on the Cyan Cylinder: mostly we are facing scum into the cylinder but, when we press the blade, scum is coming out, then after 5 to 10 mins is coming back again.

Lyle Miranda
packaging - Lagos, Nigeria


September 22, 2013

A. Hi Leila,

Scumming problems can have various causes. Please review your engraving and chroming parameters, but also your print settings such as doctor blade, oscillation of doctor blade and the type of doctor blade.

Kind regards,

Dominik Michalek
- Epping, VIC, Australia



October 21, 2013

Q. Is there a correlation of copper hardness to the chrome hardness, what I mean is if the copper has low hardness the chrome will also have a lower value than the normal on the gravure cylinder?

Alexander ARIOLA
- Batangas City, Philippines



Chrome pitting issue

January 12, 2014

Q. We manufacture gravure rolls. I'm facing chrome pitting problem. Please suggest to me.
Chromic acid-250 gpl
Sulfuric acid-2.5 gpl
Trivalent chrome-3.5
hardness-990 hv
calalyst-170
Crack-1850

Should I increase or decrease any of above mentioned for reducing chrome pitting?

Komal Kumar
plating shop employee - Rudrapur, US, Nagar



January 14, 2014

Q. We are facing small dents (sometimes damage in the non image area) on the printing Cylinder after engraving and also after chrome the cylinder in the image area or non image area!! What are the process or technique to fill-up the dent or damaged area except polishing by emery paper?

SUJIT DAS
- Kolkata, W.B., India



Ink lines on gravure cylinder

January 31, 2014

Q. We are facing a problem of ink lines occurred on non-engraved area of gravure cylinder. This happens mainly when the printer runs the cylinders beyond 140 m/min. speed.
Can any one suggest the possible cause and idea to get rid of it?

Bhavesh Patel
- Gandhinagar, Gujarat, India


February 4, 2014

A. Hi,

You need to be more specific regarding ink lines, they could be hazing, scumming, color streak and/or drag out. Also the tone density of these ink lines are important since this leaves the clue of what could be the root cause.

Dominik Michalek
- Chonburi, Thailand


April 21, 2014

A. Hi!

I'm in a big company that produces printing cylinder in China, so maybe I will analyze it more from the printing cylinder. The possible causes as follows:
1. wound in the surface of printing cylinder --
- check the surface of printing cylinder; if find wound you can re plate with chrome.
2. the polishing is not good on surface of the printing cylinder --
- you can polish the surface with fine sandpaper when the printing cylinder is rotating in the printing press, but you must be careful and not to injure the printing cylinder.
- you also can ask the printing cylinder factory to polish it again.
3. dirt on surface of the printing cylinder --
- you can clean the printing cylinder with some cleanout fluid; sometimes the printing material will also make the printing cylinder soiled when printing.
4. doctor blade(very important) --
- doctor blade have a gap sometimes,maybe you can try with a new doctor blade
5.ink (very important) --
- ink particle size is too big.
You need make dilution for ink or other ways
6. the printing material
- such as the printing material is paper.
7. the quality of printing cylinder, such as quality of chromium, the balance of dynamic balance, the printing cylinder is not very round --
- so maybe you can ask the printing cylinder to make a better polishing on the surface of printing cylinder. It is also good to engrave a very very light pattern on the part of non-engraved area of gravure cylinder, sometimes it can avoid the ink line or white dot.

The above is only my opinion. This is my private opinion and a reference only.

Bert Gu
produce all kinds of printing cylinders - Donggguan city,China



Chrome scumming on gravure unit

October 3, 2014

Q. We have an issue of chrome polishing (scumming) on the cyan unit. It is more frequently happening on one unit (7) on the wire side of the unit and not as frequent as unit 2 the smooth side. The ratio is 5 2 1. They have increased the catalyst to harden the chrome, and the ink grind is less than 1 µm. We have added PTFE and castor oil as a slip additive which has shown a slight improvement but problem still persists. Any recommendations?

David Meeser
printing inks - Cape Town Western Cape South Africa



Chrome is "Frosting" on wbore gravure cylinders

October 7, 2014

Q. I work for a gravure company that manufactures print cylinders. We use wbore and shafted style cylinders . All of a sudden whenever we chrome a wbore cylinder it frosts. The shafted cylinders come out fine. We've replaced and checked all the connections and everything looks okay. Any ideas?
Thanks
Donald

Donald Bryant
- Canterbury, Connecticut


October 2014

? Hi Donald. A pic might help as I'm not sure we all envision the same thing when you say "frosting" -- that sounds to me like "burning". I'm not familiar with the term "wbore", but from context it sounds like a hollow cylinder?

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E.
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
Striving to live Aloha



April 12, 2015

Q. We are facing shade problem after printing 20000 meters. So please give me the solution as early as possible.

Muhammad Tariq
- Lahore,Pakistan



April 29, 2015

thumbs up signAt the moment I just want to say that I am really glad I found this forum. I read all the comments and I must say they were all very very helpful, so I made a point wise summary.
Cheers,

SAAD HALEEM KHAN, CEO
PIP PVT LTD - Lahore, Punjab. Pakistan

----
Ed. note: Thank you for the kind note. This site is about people helping each other, and hopefully having some fun at it too. One of the best ways to learn is to try to teach because when we attempt to teach we usually quickly learn that we didn't know things as clearly as we thought we did :-)



Scumming problem: picking up ink in non-image areas

October 9, 2015

Q. We are facing scumming problem in all the CMYK of an eight color job. This job is new and running for the first time. We have changed the ink, rubbed the emery paper and changed the solvents too. We are still facing this problem. The cylinder is picking up ink in non image area. How can it be solved?

Shikhar Agrawal
Prabhat Rotopack Pvt. Ltd. - Mathura, Uttar Pradesh, India



November 21, 2015

Q. Hi everyone!

It has been a week or so that we've actually run into a problem in our very company. Our company produces prepress stuffs especially Gravure cylinders. As I told, it has been a week that we've got problems with our cylinders. they have fault gaps on them, you know!
We have no idea where these gaps come from.
I can see most of the people in this community are professional in printing industry, so any help would be appreciated.

Babak Tabrizli
- Tabriz,Iran



Rust Formation of Hard Chrome Plated rotogravure cylinder

December 31, 2015

Q. We are rotogravure cylinder manufacturer. Our one customer complaining rusting (corrosion) problems on hard chrome on our gravure cylinder. I want to know how cause this problem? Is it manufacturing defect? Or is it careless maintenance from customer. What is the reason for rusting or corrosion. Please give the answer.

DINESH PATEL
VED GRAPHICS INDUSTRIES - HMEDABAD,GUJARAT, INDIA


January 4, 2016

A. Hi Dinesh,

Rusting is a process that happens to iron and steel, not hard chrome plating. A good description of the fault (preferably with photos) would help people determine (or at least guide you) the possible faults and potential rectifications.

Without much evidence here are a couple of guesses at what could be the problem:

Thin coating, base steel roller is corroding
Poor rinsing after hard anodising, leaving chromic acid to leach out (can look like rust)

More information will help you get a better answer though.

Brian Terry
Aerospace - Yeovil, Somerset, UK



May 25, 2016

Q. Hi, chroming problems are an ongoing problem but only happen on our key cylinders. We apply nickel on sides to try to prevent wear -- is this practice common? All the specs regarding the chrome solution are 100% and the Rz is between 0.4 to 0.6.

Thanks

Richard Davidson
Printing gravure - South Africa



July 12, 2016

Q. Hi All

I am from printing manufacturing, but we make our own cylinders by taking base cell from suppliers. I would like to know how much amount of nickel should I deposit on base cell? What should be the exact concentration of my nickel bath?
Concentration of copper bath? Mechanical and chemical properties of base cell?

Vishal Daundkar
- pune,maharashtra,india


September 15, 2016

Q. Hi,
I am facing problem on cylinders. After hard chrome plating, pit marks are observed near print messages. How can we avoid these pit marks?

How to resolve this problem?

nitin panchal
ACG Metalcrafts Pvt. Ltd. - pune, maharashtra, india



March 28, 2017

Q. Hi gentlemen,
this is Gva from flexible packaging.
I have a four color job. How can I calculate the life of the cylinder?
Colors: Green (Text), Red, By Cyan, Yellow
How many meters can I run?

Also, I am continuously facing lines coming while printing in Green and Bg Cyan. Why is it coming? Even if I re-engrave, also after 3 MT it's forming with lines.

Jeeva K Samy
- Bangalore, Karnataka, India



Hard chrome plated rotogravure cylinder surface is oxidized and white rust observed

July 15, 2017

Q. The chrome plating on Rotogravure printing cylinder chrome is oxidized -- the complete face. In practical words, explain how to stop chrome plating cylinder oxidization and white rust and white pitted spots on cylinder surface. What is the controlled method for all problems?
Cylinder specification --
Hard copper plating thickness min 350 micron
Hardness of cylinder 200 to 220 vic,
Hard chrome plating thickness is 8 to 10 micron
Hardness mentioned of hard chrome plating 900 to 1050.
After printing the cylinder is cleaned with acetone and wrapped with plastic/paper and stored; we observe cylinder surface white rust and oxidation of the surface.

Ravi Shinde
Product designer - Pune, Maharashtra, India


July 25, 2017

A. Hi,

I am guessing that you don't wipe the cylinders again after you clean them with Acetate solvent? Keep in mind that acetate reacts with humid environments to become acetic acid and can migrate through the microcrack layers to the copper, causing an adhesion issue which later results into popping off the chrome layer.

Dominik Michalek
Helio Asia Ltd - Pluakdaeng, Thailand



November 24, 2017

Q. Hi Gentlemen,

I am from cylinder engraving house in KSA. Because of lots of complaints regarding chrome peel-off issue from our customer, we decided to change the chrome layer from 8 microns to 10 microns.

Our finger print cylinder were done with 8 microns. Now if I change it to 10 micron for new job, will it affect the colors at printing press?

Abu Zakariyya
- Riyadh, KSA



January 6, 2019

Q. We have a line cracking on printing...so there is something like a line in a output design.

farnod asadi
- iran, tabriz



November 5, 2019

Ed. note:
No
abstract questions
Please!!

Q. Hi Mr. Dominik Michalek,

I appreciate your suggestion. Acetate solvent is very common solvent for cylinder cleaning. Could you please suggest alternative option of acetate solvent?

komal kumar [returning]
- gujarat,india



July 1, 2020

Q. My name is Morris MUSAU from Kenya
I work in a gravure printing company but we have a problem with our cylinders, we have two suppliers but one suppliers cylinders have big problems 1 after printing we always wash the cylinders and keep them in a store even we always oil and rap them, but in the next run we find the chrome has peeled off in some areas, but the other supplier cylinders are ok even after long runs and stored we always find them to be ok and good for the next run so we don't know what is the problem with this one supplier when we ask they keep telling us the cylinders are okay and they meet the standards and quality please help because you always throw them in the same area

Morris MUSAU
- Nairobi, kenya



August 16, 2020

Q. Hi.Recently we had been encountered continuous problems in chrome cylinder. During production run, we had been noticed that cylinder (magenta) had visible line. We checked the inks but we didn't find any hard particles on it. We checked also the blade pressure and set up and it was okay.

11955-3

We need your suggestions on how we can trouble shoot this problem
Thank you.

Jennylyn Rabolar
- Malabon City, Metro Manila, Philippines

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