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topic 4558

MIL-C-5541 / MIL-DTL-5541 Class 1a vs. Class 3 Chromate Conversion Coatings


A discussion started in 2000 but continuing through 2018

2000

Q. Mil-C-5541 [link is to free spec at Defense Logistics Agency, dla.mil]-E, Class 1a (gold finish) vs. Class 3 (clear finish)

What is the difference between Gold Iridite and Clear Iridite in terms of process. Is there any favorable impact on cost if we require our vendor to do Clear Finish?

John Chu
electronics - Melville, New York

Ed. note: Iridite is a Macdermid trademark.


2000

A. Yellow chromate is thicker than clear and has more chromate in it so protects the metal considerably longer. Since most people want better protection, most shops do not offer clear. Some will legally bleach a yellow which is another step. Some will give it a very short tank time which will normally provide a substandard product.

Cost wise, you will probably be better off with yellow.

James Watts
- Navarre, Florida


2000

A. Class 1 or 1A yellow is usually called out for corrosion protection or as a pretreatment for paint adhesion, Class 3 is usually called out for electrical conductivity purposes. In actual practice many folks use the same processes for classes 1 or 3. However, many folks will bleach yellow to meet a clear call-out which results in substandard corrosion resistance, and won't meet salt spray specification requirements. There are good products out there for clear chromate which will meet salt spray requirements even for 2000 series. There should not be a cost impact between the two types as long as the shop is set up to run both as the number of tanks, processing times and chemical costs are essentially the same. In terms of passing salt spray for clear, there are many letters at this site about this and most people in the business know the parameters required, some of which involve the salt spray coupons themselves.

Ward Barcafer, CEF
aerospace - Wichita, Kansas


2000

A. John,

The cost for either process is the same for my business, however, the end use of the product would probably dictate which to specify. The conductivity of 1A vs. 3, as Ward mentioned, is often the biggest reason to specify Class 3 (gold or clear). Some customers want the Clear Chromate finish only because they prefer the way it looks, without any regard or need for corrosion protection or relative conductivity. As James mentioned, Class 1A will give the product more protection longer and that may be the most favorable impact to cost.

Lamar Jackson
- Fort Walton Beach, Florida

----
Ed note: The postings above refer to hexavalent chrome coatings, and predate the world's big shift to RoHS-compatible trivalent chromium conversion coatings. With the new proprietary trivalent coatings and topcoats, it may no longer be true that yellow coatings are thicker or offer greater protection; these days the yellow color is sometimes just dye.



2001

Q. Will clear Iridite process cause poor peel strength to a metal part? If Yes, Why and How significant different is it compared to a raw metal (no Iridite coating )?

Eric De Forzea
- Malaysia


(2002)

Q. What is the difference between MIL-C-5541 & MIL-C-5541E? Is the implication of Class 1A and Class 3 are the same? This process is chromating, but come across some time call it Alodine or Iridite, what is the difference?

William Wong
- Singapore


(2002)

A. Hi Eric. "Peel strength" of what -- paint or powder coating on the component? As long as the chromate conversion coating is done right, paint will stick better to it than to raw aluminum, and you will have better corrosion resistance.

Hi William. The "E" is just the revision level in alphabetical order. There was a "D" and there will be an "F". I don't quite understand your second question, but Ward is saying that it is sometimes possible for no adjustments to be required for one tank to produce coatings that meet both standards. Alodine (Henkel) and Iridite (Macdermid) are two of the brand names on the Qualified Products List associated with Mil-C-5541.

Ted Mooney, finishing.com Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E.
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey



2006

Q. Which process is better protection on parts? Is there a significant cost difference?

Thanks,

Nick Ng
Plating of metal work - Chapel Hill, North Carolina


2006

A. Neither and no. They are brand names (actually trade names for a whole series of processes) from two different suppliers. It's like asking if Ford products are better than Chevy products, Nick. Some people prefer one brand over the other and claim it performs better, but after 50 years in this business my own conclusion is that whichever brand has the better local serviceperson at the time is the brand that works better :-)

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E.
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey



To minimize your searching efforts and to offer multiple viewpoints, we've combined some threads into the dialog you're viewing. Please forgive any resultant repetition or failures of chronological order.



TUTORIAL FOR NEWBIES:

Chromate conversion coating on aluminum is most commonly specified to be in accord with MIL-C-5541 / MIL-DTL-5541. This process is also sometimes called "Chem Film", especially in the USA.

Because the two most popular brands of the required chemistry are Iridite (from Macdermid) and Alodine (from Henkel), the process is also often called Iriditing or Alodining.

Difference between Class I and Class III Iriditing

2006

Q. I would like to know the difference between Class I and Class III Iriditing. Is Class III gold? Thanks for any help

Rita Flygar
hobbyist - Rockville, Maryland, USA


2006

A. Class 3 is lighter in color BUT more importantly, less electrically resistant (i.e. MORE CONDUCTIVE). Heavier chromates (i.e. darker), Class 1A, are more resistant to both corrosion and electrical passage.

milt stevenson jr.
Milt Stevenson, Jr.
Anoplate Corporation
supporting advertiser 
Syracuse, New York

Anoplate banner



May 13, 2009

Q. My experience is this process is not very good, the Iridite does not adhere to the base very well; it could be removed by rubber. Is there some method to improve this?

Seaman Fang
- Shanghai, China


May 15, 2009

A. Hi, Seaman. Raw aluminum is not simply dipped into a tank full of Iridite; immersion is this tank follows after a cleaning, etching, and desmutting pretreatment sequence. Are you operating the process in full compliance with the technical data sheets from Macdermid? What alloy of aluminum are you treating, and what is the pretreatment sequence? But yes, an eraser can remove most of the coating.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E.
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey



February 21, 2014

Q. Is there contact resistivity differences between Iridite type III yellow and Iridite type III clear in K band?

I assume the resistivity is extremely low for either type; is there some reference material with actual measurements of surface resistivity?

paul_volk
Paul Volk
- Palo Alto, California USA



October 23, 2017 -- this entry appended to this thread by editor in lieu of spawning a duplicative thread

Q. Need Suggestions:
I am new to the chemical processing side of things, and have a few questions if somebody can help answering:

- Talking about immersion time req'd for Class 1A and Class 3 ALODINE (using Alodine 1200s): is there a table/chart we can use that talks about immersion time against concentration of Alodine in the tank?

- Referring to MIL-DTL-5541F, if parts comply with ALODINE class 3, do they technically comply with Class 1A as well ? (considering both Classes need to comply with Corrosion Resistance but Class 3 also need to comply with Electrical Conductivity, so basically Class 3 is better than Class 1A?, and if I fine tune my immersion time for Class 3, no matter what is called on the PO I can use the same numbers for both classes 1A and 3?

Nav D [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Pickering, Ontario, Canada


August 29, 2018

Q. I was really hoping someone would answer Nav D's question. Mine is similar. We have a part that requires MIL-DTL-5541 Class 1A and Class 3, Type 1 Clear in different locations on the part - the Class 3 is definitely for electrical conductivity where there are covers on our unit. Our normal outside process shop has to perform 2 masking steps in order meet this requirement.
We are bringing on a new outside process shop to increase throughput and they are saying that they can perform the chem film process in one step (by controlling the timing) and meet both Class 1A and Class 3 without having to mask.
That there is some "sweet-spot" where both can be met if you get the timing right. Has anyone heard of this before or had good results with this. Seems too good to be true and I could really use some feedback on if this actually will meet the requirements for both chem film classes.

Angela Bengtsson
electronics - Mesa, Arizona, USA


simultaneous August 30, 2018

A. Hi Angela (and Nav, if you're still listening),

Mil-DTL-5541 [link is to free spec at Defense Logistics Agency, dla.mil] is a very open specification, and leaves a lot open to interpretation.

I would agree with your new supplier that there is a point at which you can meet both Class 1A and Class 3, without the need to carry out two separate treatments.

The problem with the MIL specification is that it has no clear differentiation between the classes, other than the electrical resistance test. So, assuming you are meeting the 168 hour salt spray requirements the appearance of the coating can be the same for both classes.

Brian Terry
Aerospace - Yeovil, Somerset, UK


August 30, 2018

A. Angela,

I struggled with these two classes (Class 1A and Class 3) of type 1 MIL-DTL-5541F finish.

The short answer is you process to pass the Class 3 requirements. This will then satisfy both requirements.

And yes there is a sweet spot, 60 seconds chromate immersion time and I found not to use the caustic etch.

I am using a standard product Alodine 1200S. I have asked a lot of questions.

If you want to follow my lessons learned look at November 2017 of thread 44433 "Close Looping"

Good Luck

Kurt

Kurt Krueger
- Lexington, Massachusetts


August 31, 2018

thumbs up sign Thank you so much Brian and Kurt for your quick responses. This has been an eye opening journey the more I am learning about the chem film process. And it is so nice to have other people who 'have been there' provide feedback. It is very appreciated!

Angela Bengtsson [returning]
Inter-Coastal Electronics, Inc. - Mesa, Arizona USA



October 3, 2018

Chromate Touchup Pen Clear

Q. Hello,

Does anyone know of any "touch up" pens that are compatible with or contain Clear Chem Film per MIL-C-5541, CL3?

My company recently converted from "Gold" CL1 to CL3 and on several occasions need to perform such touch ups to reduce the amount of scrap we otherwise would have.

Thank you in advance!

Ernest Tostado
ZMicro - San Diego, California


October 5, 2018

A. Just make your gold chromate up weaker, if powder, down to about 0.2 oz/gal, raise the pH , use a cotton swab.

robert probert
Robert H Probert
Robert H Probert Technical Services
supporting advertiser
Garner, North Carolina
Editor's note: Mr. Probert is the author of Aluminum How-To / Aluminio El Como
and co-author of The Sulfamate Nickel How-To Guide



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