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topic 59322

PFOS-free Surface Tension Reducer for Chromic Anodize / Plating



January 3, 2012

Q. Hello,

I work at a processing plant as the chemist and my company is in the process of adding a few new tanks, one of which is a chromic acid anodizing tank. I have been tasked with writing the solution analysis and control procedures which include controlling the surface tension of the tank. I am currently a chemistry student and have not really dealt too much with surface tension. I was looking for some advice on which tensiometer we should look into buying, as well as the fume suppressant. Has anyone had any success with Fumetrol 21LF? It is a newer product that may still be waiting to get reviewed by Boeing. If not we were going to go with Fumetrol 140. Any help or suggestions on these products, how to test surface tension, tank control, etc would be great.

Kyle Wheatley
Plating shop Chemist - Baltimore, Maryland, USA


January 4, 2012

A. The Tensiometer is the most respected way to measure surface tension. But do not overlook the lesser expense "stalagmometer" - more difficult to use but much easier for beginners. When using the stalagmometer, set out the distilled water and the chromic sample the night before and let both come to the same temperature before you start counting drops the next morning. For the time being use the Boeing approved surfactants and note the slightly different acid concentrations specified when you use a surfactant.

robert probert



Robert H Probert
Robert H Probert Technical Services
supporting advertiser
Garner, North Carolina
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Fumetrol 140 vs. Fumetrol 21

February 2015

A. Update: The Danish Ministry of the Environment authorized a study in 2011 concluding that Fumetrol 21 achieves the same results as Fumetrol 140 for hard chrome plating. I'd expect similar resluts for chromic acid anodizing. See "Substitution of PFOS for use in non- decorative hard chrome plating", currently available at
www2.mst.dk/udgiv/publications/2011/06/978-87-92779-10-6.pdf

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey



To minimize search efforts and to offer multiple viewpoints, we combined previously separate threads onto this page. Please forgive any resultant repetition, failures of chronological order, or what may look like readers disrespecting previous responses -- those other responses may not have been on the page at the time :-)



June 25, 2013

Q. I apologize if this subject has been covered already; I didn't find one searching the Q & A.

I need to find a PFOS free surface tension reducer for chromic anodize. So far all my suppliers and searches have come up empty.

Does anyone out there know of one? I know Finishing.com doesn't like it when individual products or companies are mentioned.

Thanks in advance

Tim Hamlett
Tim Hamlett, CEF
aerospace metals distributor - Tamarac, Florida, USA

----
Ed. note: If anyone finds one, it's no problem to mention it. But it is true that in the more general case we prefer generic answers when possible (because offering free commercial benefit leads to "comment spam" and poor behavior).


July 11, 2013

Q. I'm not sure why no one is answering except for fear of breaking the "Generic Whenever Possible" request of Finishing.com.

It's understandable so if you read this and know of a product then please contact me privately.

Thanks

Tim Hamlett
Tim Hamlett, CEF
aerospace metals distributor - Tamarac, Florida, USA


July 12, 2013

Hi Tim. It may be that the readers are in the same position as you and all of your suppliers & searches. Someone answering you privately leaves the other readers out of the loop, so we'd prefer public answers :-)

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey


July 13, 2013

A. Did you try urea?

blake kneedler
Blake Kneedler
Feather Hollow Eng. - Stockton, California


July 16, 2013

Q. Ted,

In this instance it's a pretty fine line we have to walk here to not use brand or company names and provide enough info to track down a product. I hear what you're saying though. If I get a lead and it's the only one I can find I will post it. Or maybe the supplier will post it.

Blake,

I have not tried urea but can you be more specific?

Tim Hamlett
Tim Hamlett, CEF
aerospace metals distributor - Tamarac, Florida, USA


July 17, 2013

thumbs up signThanks Tim; if you find a brand(s), let us know. Again, we're not trying to get in the way of information exchange; we simply try to avoid public spitting wars like we saw over high efficiency chrome plating patents and XRF machines, etc. There are few sales managers who can quietly bite their tongue if their competition is publicly recommended as superior to them :-)

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey


July 18, 2013

A. Tim,
PFOS is already banned in Minnesota and there are options commercially available to buy, they are listed as fume suppressants. One supplier is in Wisconsin. I have about 3 or more on a list but due to the rules I can't post them. 2% urea can help due to the hydrotropic aspects of urea but may not be as effective as one of the patented varieties on the market. Good luck! I haven't been to Pompano or Tampa for a long time, I trust all is well with you.

blake kneedler
Blake Kneedler
Feather Hollow Eng. - Stockton, California


July 2013

A. Hi Blake. Please feel free to give the supplier names as long as we don't get into advocacy. That's when the people who were not advocated take offense and things get unpleasant :-)

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey


July 19, 2013

A. Some possible options to look into:
Fumetrol 21 LF (Atotech)
Fumetrol 21 (Atotech)
Ankor Wetting Agent FF (Enthone)
Udique Wetting Agent PF2 (Enthone)
Cancel ST-45 (PRI)
FS-600 (PRI)
FS-750 (PRI)
870 S (SurTec)
870 S K4 (SurTec)

blake kneedler
Blake Kneedler
Feather Hollow Eng. - Stockton, California



November 6, 2013

Q. Hi

Can anyone tell me the advantages of Fumetrol 21LF over Fumetrol 21, apart from the obvious low foaming.

If the low foaming is the only advantage, in what ways does it effect the emissions to justify almost double the cost of the regular Fumetrol 21? Any facts/figures that can be offered would be appreciated.

Thanks

Dan Winspear
Tech Support - Sparwood, BC, Canada



February 25, 2015 -- this entry appended to this thread by editor in lieu of spawning a duplicative thread

Q. Anyone have a viable replacement for Fumetrol 140 Mist Suppressant?

Carl Walden
- Warner Robins, Georgia, USA

----
Ed. note: Hi Carl. We appended your inquiry to a previous thread on the subject.



February 26, 2015

thumbs up signThanks For all of the responses!

Carl Walden [returning]
- Warner Robins, Georgia

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