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Dissolving aluminum with caustic soda
Q. Hi guys,
Stumbled onto this board and understand this is not strictly a "finishing" question. But I think the process may be similar enough to maybe steer me in a direction.
I work at a small aluminum manufacturing plant that produces seamless aluminum tubing. We use a site made sodium hydroxide solution(10-15%) in a boil out tank to remove aluminum residue from our steel tooling and to do sample etching as well. We used to use a nitrate/nitrite based additive to extend the life of the caustic solution. That product has become unavailable. We are using straight sodium hydroxide now and only get about 3 weeks of usability per 100 gallon batch. We used to get almost 2 months with the additive.
My question is this: Is there an additive that will increase the efficacy and extend the life of our caustic for this tooling boil out process?
- Richland, Washington
March 28, 2022
April 2, 2022
A. If your problem is aluminum hydroxide precipitation in the pickling tank, then among the available ways to prevent its formation, there is a way to introduce additives such as sodium gluconate in an amount of 3% by weight of sodium hydroxide.
We also use commercial additives to the sodium hydroxide solution, which prevent the formation of sediment and do not require heating the solution and do not over-etch the products.
- Nizhniy Novgorod, Russia
April 7, 2022
A. Your last answer was correct. Use a chelate such as gluconate or EDTA. It should extend the life, but may add problems in the effluent to the drain.
Drew Nosti, CEF
Anodize USA
Ladson, South Carolina
April 8, 2022
A. You must use sequestering agents in order to prevent precipitation of aluminium hydroxide such as sodium gluconate, sorbitol. Also you can add sodium nitrate/nitrite as well (nitrate/nitrite cause less slow reaction during etching).
Alaattin Tuna- Sakarya TURKEY
↓ Closely related postings, oldest first ↓
2002
Q. I am trying to see if it possible to remove Aluminum that was rubbed onto glass, by either dissolving it or some other method. If so, how and what products might I need? Thank You for any response you might have.
J Casper- Fresno, California, USA
2002
A. Aluminium is soluble in caustic solutions. Try a warm solution of sodium hydroxide, strength - 40 g/l. If this is not effective then double the strength. But, watch out for etching of the glass which can happen if the solution is too strong or left on the glass for a long time.
Good luck.
- Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
2002
A. With proper safety precautions us "Easy Off Oven Cleaner" Should be alkaline enough to dissolve Al.
Jon Quirt- Fridley, Minnesota
2002
Q. Does anyone know what concentration NaOH in a caustic/water solution results in the greatest rate of dissolution of aluminium?
We currently use 25% NaOH to dissolve aluminium from extrusion dies but I have heard of some extrusion companies using 20% and others using up to 30%. What is the optimum concentration?
Jim Pejoskialuminium - Canning Vale, Western Australia
2002
A. I think that you left out two very important parts, Temperature and Agitation. Typical with many chemical processes, a 20 °F or 10 °C temp increase will double the rate of reaction. Stripping aluminum forms a gel like hydroxide coating that must be removed for fresh lye solution to get to it. Outgassing does part of that. A 20 °F temp rise and a doubling of the agitation should allow the use of 20% lye. Cost effective and safer.
James Watts- Navarre, Florida
Where is all the NaOH going?
2006We are an electroforming job shop. most of our parts are produced on 6061 aluminum mandrels which we dissolve with NaOH (caustic). For years and years we have done this in a 100 gal steel tank heated with a gas burner.
The concentration has been by "eye", starting with 2 5-gallon buckets of caustic beads and adding some more as we go depending on how much aluminum we've dissolved. We can typically dissolve about 50 lbs of aluminum this way before the bath is dumped and the sludge shoveled out. The problem is that now we have added a 300gal tank for a specific job an we can't seem to dissolve more than a couple of pounds of aluminum without the bath going "dead".
I just put a part in that tank that typically would completely dissolve in the smaller tank over night. It was barely etched. We also are getting a white film on the parts and a thick white build up on the drive chain for the agitator (these parts are rotated on a frame under the solution).
We lose a lot of solution over night due to evaporation, (as much as 50 gal). The tank is refilled every morning and topped off at the end of the day (water only).
I guess my question is, is there an easy (we've got rid of our chemist)way to test for the amount of free caustic in the bath?
(please be very specific thanks)
Where is all the NaOH going. I would suspect that if it were getting carried out with the steam that the whole area would be white by now (it's not) Can a bath like this be run too hot?
- Brookfield, Connecticut
2006
Are you sure you thought of all the differences between the 100 and 300 tank? Come back to us with more information, and consider that Sodium Hydroxide heated (with steam) will turn to sodium carbonate.
Robert H Probert
Robert H Probert Technical Services
Garner, North Carolina
2006
Tracy
Its a pity you got rid of your chemist as perhaps he could help you solve this problem. Was it a cost cutting program - if so perhaps you let go the wrong person. I am worried you are losing up to 50 gallons of bath each night - this must be costing a fortune in heating costs. What is wrong with covering the tank and adding insulation to preserve any heat you have in the tank? Such losses suggest to me you have a high tank surface area, which indicates there could be carbon dioxide absorption by your caustic tank - this will result in a loss of sodium hydroxide to sodium carbonate. Secondly, you do not say what your new tank is made from - if it reacts with sodium hydroxide, one day you will find the contents all over the floor. thirdly, to determine the amount of sodium hydroxide you have, just titrate the bath against a standard strength (say 0.5 or 1M) HCl using methyl orange indicator; this is basic schoolboy chemistry and isn't difficult. The maths is simple; just remember that 1 mole of sodium hydroxide reacts with 1 mole of hydrochloric acid. Good luck and Merry Christmas
Trevor Crichton
R&D practical scientist
Chesham, Bucks, UK
2006
The tank is covered and insulated and made of cold rolled steel. The working theory based on the comments so far is that the burner we are using is heating to small an area and may be creating super heated steam at the bottom of the tank. I'm looking for an other burner or a diffuser to spread out the heat. Thanks for the test info as well.
Tracy Yoho- Brookfield, Connecticut, USA
2006
By the way. We we've been experiencing this problem since before we let our chemist go. I guess if is so simple and he couldn't figure it out it's a good thing he's gone.
Tracy Yoho- Brookfield, Connecticut, USA
2006
Tracy,
You did not mention about increased addition of Caustic Soda
[affil link]
(Sodium Hydroxide) when you increased the volume to 300 gal. You do not have the same solution concentration or strength, you diluted your solution 3 times. Add more caustic bead at same ratio as the 100 gal tank.
If you use 2 x 5 gallon bucket for 100 gal tank, use
6 x 5 gl bucket for 300 gal. tank for the same concentration.
good luck.
- Mays Landing, New Jersey
2007
No we scaled everything. The starting concentration should be the same (used 6 buckets/300gal)
We did use additional NaOH to keep the starting concentration the same.
- Brookfield, Connecticut, USA
2007
Tracey, what is the surface area of your two tanks? I am not convinced about superheated steam because to get it, you need to use high pressure and I cannot see how steam will destroy sodium hydroxide, but perhaps I am missing something there. I am now very concerned that you are losing up to 50 gallons a night, despite the tank being covered. This is one sixth of the tank volume. Perhaps if you can find where this volume is going, you may find your missing sodium hydroxide. One thought - do you make up the tank with water or fresh caustic solution? If you are losing solution by a leak, then making it up with water will dilute the caustic, but if it is purely evaporative losses, then it will be just water and the caustic concentration of the bath will increase overnight and before it is remade to the correct volume - check that out and get back to us. If it is evaporative loss, you are also potentially absorbing a lot of CO2, which will react with the caustic to form sodium carbonate.
Trevor Crichton
R&D practical scientist
Chesham, Bucks, UK
2007
Tracy,
That is baffling. In time like this, let us start from day one.
What are the inside dimensions of the 100 gal tank LxWxD.What is the height of the liquid.
Do the same thing with the 300 gal Tank. Include the height of the liquid.
I will double check the volumes, just in case.
- Mays Landing, New Jersey
2007
Perhaps zinc contamination converted the etch to zincate solution. Was galvanized steel used for the tank? Any zinc mandrels used in electroforming?
Have a lab do an analysis.
Also, it seems temperature controls are lacking.
- Goleta, California
Finishing.com honored Ken for his countless carefully researched responses. He passed away May 14, 2015.Rest in peace, Ken. Thank you for your hard work which the finishing world, and we at finishing.com, continue to benefit from.
Alternatives to caustic for removing aluminum from stainless steel
2007Recently I have been put in charge of hazardous waste disposal at our facility where we coat plastic substrates with aluminum and stainless steel. Our engineering department has looked at, on and off again, a better method of removing aluminum build up from our tooling. Since we use a variety of technologies, all vacuum based, to apply the aluminum it coats everything. All of our systems are designed to break down so that cleaning can be performed.
Currently we are using a Caustic Soda [affil link] bath to clean our stainless steel vacuum chamber components and stainless steel tooling fixtures. We run this bath at a pH of between 10 and 12, at a temperature of about 80 °C. This cleans most tooling in about 90 minutes depending on the thickness of coating and the freshness of our caustic solution. I've looked around and most every thing I've found says this is the most effective way to attack this situation, but there has got to be another way. Dealing with this highly corrosive solution is a hazard in itself. We've tried neutralizing the solution, but this is expensive, and potentially volatile if not properly controlled. We've conceded to shipping the water out "as is" to our TSDF. Is there another method being used in the industry that would remove the aluminum build up, without damaging the stainless, that is less hazardous? I would be willing to sacrifice some of the efficiency for a safer less hazardous solution.
Nicholas BoyceEnvironmental Tech. for coatings - London, Ohio
2007
A. While it may be interesting to investigate mechanical removal of the aluminum with a soda blast or other non aggressive blasting media, Nicholas, I don't think you'll find it practical. You're trying to remove an adherent solid metal, so don't be disappointed that it requires strong chemistry. Alkali is safer for the stainless than acid, and is very widely used to dissolve aluminum.
Sure, Caustic Soda [affil link] is a "hazardous chemical" to be handled with respect, but let's not overstate it:
Drano, Liquid Plumber, and Red Devil Lye are enticingly displayed to the completely untrained consumer in every supermarket & hardware store. Oven cleaner, which is a similar caustic to what you are using, comes in aerosol spray cans and children are not even "proofed" to buy it :-)
Surely every nurse and dental hygienist faces far graver dangers than a properly trained and dressed employee working with proper equipment for caustic dissolution. Good luck.
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2007
A. In the dark ages, we covered every part that we could with aluminum foil which we sold for scrap aluminum and recovered the parts. For the rest, Caustic Soda [affil link] is the only affordable way to do the deed.
James Watts- Navarre, Florida
Caustic cleaning to remove aluminum from stainless steel
August 22, 2015Q. I work for a company that uses vacuum metallizing to coat plastic substrate with aluminum. Aluminum books up on the tooling pretty fast, and the tooling then has to be placed in a NaOH bath at 135 °F. When all of the Al is removed from the steel, it has a brown residue on it which usually has to be scrubbed off using water and alcohol. Even after scrubbing to remove the residue, a white powder substance is still left on the steel. I'm thinking it is NaOH but I would think it should be removed when scrubbing with water. Anyone out there experience this issue? Would using a water softener for the rinse help? Maybe try using ethanol or methanol?
Eric boydtooling technician - usa
adv.:
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