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topic 43467

Bath Analysis - AMS 2486 Fluoride-Phosphate

A discussion started in 2006 but continuing through 2018


Q. Looking for methods to analyze for the baths constituents in the Fluoride-Phosphate Conversion Bath specified in AMS2486 [link by ed. to spec at TechStreet]. Bath Constituents/Control -

1) Trisodium Phosphate (Na3PO4-12H20) 6.5 to 6.9 oz/gal
2) Potassium Fluoride (KF-2H20) 2.3 to 3.2 oz/gal
3) Hydrofluoric Acid (49% HF) 2.6 to 4.4 fl oz/gal

Any suggested methods for analysis is appreciated. Thank you.

Don Matthews
surface finishing - Holyoke, Massachusetts


A. Don-
From an analytical point of view, this bath is more complicated than most. In order to be relatively brief, all I can do is give you a hint at what needs to be done which assumes that you are a chemist and have access to some standard metal finishing analytical reference materials. For phosphate (TSP), work out a colorimetric procedure similar method 39.02 in Aubrey Knowles' "Colorimetric Analysis of Metal Finishing & Metal Working Solutions & Effluents" style=[link is to info about the book at Amazon] . For hydrofluoric acid, you can titrate the H+ with standard NaOH to a phenolphthalein endpoint, but that only determines part of the HF concentration since some of the HF has been neutralized by the TSP. You will need to account for the HF that was neutralized by TSP in order to get your total HF. This will require quite a bit of number crunching to express your final result in % of 48 wt% HF. For KF, you need to run total fluoride by any number of methods (search on this site) and do the math to subtract the result from the fluoride due to HF. As you can see, there is plenty of room for error as a bad result in one determination will also yield a bad result in another. Because of this, my best advice is to rely heavily on the physical properties of the coating rather than on the chemical analysis of the solution. Good Luck.

Jon Barrows
Jon Barrows, MSF, EHSSC
Springfield, Missouri

Analysis Methods for Phosphate Fluoride conversion coatings

April 1, 2018 -- this entry appended to this thread by editor in lieu of spawning a duplicative thread

Q. Does anyone have any analysis methods to control these baths?

Greg Payne
- Belfast Northern Ireland

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