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topic 39060

AMS 2404, 2405 Specs & Testing


A discussion started in 2006 but continuing through 2018

2006

Q. I am hoping that someone can direct me to a publication, website, etc., that will show substitutions and or equivalent specs from Mil-Spec to AMS or vice versa. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

James Timoteo
machine company - Wichita, Kansas


2006

affil. link
Electroless Plating
by Mallory & Hajdu
from Abe Books
or
Amazon

A. You're treading on dangerous territory. While the title of the specifications might be comparable, the processes, requirements, test methodology, sampling plans, etc. are typically quite different ...

Just take EN for example: ASTM B733 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet] divides electroless nickel into 5 grades according to phosphorus content; AMS2405 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet] differentiates the electroless nickel it covers by using the term "LOW PHOS" in its title and states this as those EN's with 8% or less (this certainly isn't LOW PHOS EN as we know it today!); and the MIL spec makes no mention of phos content. Also, the MIL spec requires EN to have 100 hours of corrosion resistance while AMS2404 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet] only requires 48 hours. So, is EN per Mil-C-26074 [link is to free spec spec at Defense Logistics Agency, dla.mil] or EN per AMS 2404 or EN per ASTM B733 "equivalent" or "comparable" - NOT LIKELY!

I've turned your inquiry over to my Sales Engineer who will send you want you're looking for - we use an internal cheat sheet BUT we know the limitations! Tread carefully.

milt stevenson jr.
Milt Stevenson, Jr.
Anoplate Corporation
supporting advertiser 
Syracuse, New York
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To minimize search efforts and to offer multiple viewpoints, we combined previously separate threads onto this page. Please forgive any resultant repetition, failures of chronological order, or what may look like readers disrespecting previous responses -- those other responses may not have been on the page at the time :-)



Help - need info on AMS 2433B spec

2006

Q. I have a callout for AMS2433 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet] rev. B Type 2 electroless nickel. I don't have the spec. Can someone help me? I need to know what the type 2 refers to - thickness, phos content, heat treatment?

Thanks

Stephen Rohrbacher
plating co., - Lowell, Massachusetts


2006

affil. link
"Electroless Nickel Plating"
by Wolfgang Riedel
from Abe Books
or
info on Amazon

A. My suggestion is NO QUOTE! AMS2433 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet] is NOT electroless nickel as most platers know it. It calls specifically for nickel-boron-THALLIUM which is a far cry from the conventional nickel phosphorus electroless nickels as called out in AMS2404 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet] and AMS2405 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet]. Straight nickel-boron is covered by AMS2399 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet] . Most companies won't touch thallium bearing solutions - check out the health concerns associated.... From one websource: "Exposure to high levels of thallium can result in harmful health effects. Studies in people who ingested large amounts of thallium over a short time have reported vomiting, diarrhea, temporary hair loss, and effects on the nervous system, lungs, heart, liver, and kidneys. It has caused death. A study on workers exposed on the job over several years reported nervous system effects, such as numbness of fingers and toes, from breathing thallium."

milt stevenson jr.
Milt Stevenson, Jr.
Anoplate Corporation
supporting advertiser 
Syracuse, New York
Anoplate banner


2006

A. Hello Stephen!

AMS2433 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet] rev. C is the current revision, and it says Type 1 is Nickel Thallium Boron, while Type 2 is Nickel Boron. N-T-B has 2.5 to 5.0% Boron with 2.5 to 6.0% Thallium. The Nickel Boron is 2.5 to 8.5% Boron.

There isn't a change bar next to these paragraphs, so I believe that the B revision says the same thing.

lee gearhart
Lee Gearhart
metallurgist - E. Aurora, New York



AMS-C-26074 vs AMS2404

March 1, 2011

Q. What is the difference between AMS-C-26074 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet] vs AMS2404 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet]? They are both for Electroless nickel.

David Tobias
product designer - New York, New York


March 4, 2011

A. David,

You are going to have to bite the bullet and buy the specifications. Both are produced by SAE and are commercially owned specifications.

It will also do you good to read and compare the specifications, you'll learn so much more.

Brian Terry
Aerospace - Yeovil, Somerset, UK



Testing electroless nickel plated parts

affil. link
"Electroless Copper and Nickel-Phosphorous Plating"
from Abe Books

or

August 9, 2010

Q. I'm processing my 430F SS metal with the following formula

1.- Electropolish ASTM B912 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet](-02)

2.- Chemical Passivation Treatments for Stainless Steel Parts ASTM A967 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet] (-05)

Test:
Should be Practice D Copper Sulfate Test. (Page 4)
Treatments in Nitric Acid Solutions.
Nitric 1 Solution should be used per X1.1 page 6.

3.- AMS2404: Plating, Electroless Nickel

Class 2, Thermal treatment at 450 °F (232 °C) or above to harden the deposit (Page 4)
Thickness of nickel should be 0.0015 inch (0.038 mm) for iron-based alloys.

Do you know what will be the test for the Electroless nickel plated parts?

Carlos Villanueva
Project & Design Engineer - Chihuahua, Mexico


August 20, 2010

A. The spec you refer to has all the details in it.

Jeroen Visser
- Helmond, Netherlands


August 23, 2010

A. Carlos, hi.
My old copy of AMS 2404C (Electroless Nickel Plating) states that (4.2) there are 3 classifications of tests :

4.2.1 Acceptance Tests
4.2.2 Periodic Tests
4.2.3 Preproduction Tests

Cheah Sin Kooi
- Penang, Malaysia



October 10, 2016

Q. I have a requirement to electroless nickel plate a part per AMS2404 class 2.
The hardness after heat treatment for class 2 shall be no lower than 800HK100 (773HV100)
I have a question on the hardness test force per ASTM E384 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet]. Should the force be 100 gf instead or 100 Kgf?

Would appreciate your help!

Henry Deardurff
- Monroe, Ohio


October 25, 2016

A. Henry,
I would contact ASTM about that. They should be able to find the person to tell you if the standard should be followed as written or if you've discovered a typographical error.

ray kremer
Ray Kremer
Stellar Solutions, Inc.
supporting advertiser
McHenry, Illinois
stellar solutions banner



November 9, 2018

Q. What is the basic difference between choosing an AMS2404 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet] and ASTM B733 [affil. link to spec at Techstreet] (High-Phos) Type-V ?

Kris Chaitanya
- Kansas City, Kansas, USA

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