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"18/10 vs. 18/8 and 18/0 stainless steel for flatware and pots & pans p.2"




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A discussion started in 2004 but continuing through 2019

April 13, 2008

Q. I would like to know if lead is ever used in making flatware. I am concerned because of China's deceptive use of lead in products.

Barbara McBroom
- Hillside, Illinois
^


April 14, 2008

A. Hi, Barbara. I can't see any reason a manufacturer would put lead into a stainless steel product. However, if you were talking silver plated flatware, there probably are some machinability advantages to making it from leaded brass rather than nickel silver.

That doesn't mean I personally believe there will be lead in a piece of silverplate, but based on the news, I'm making no promises on behalf of Chinese manufacturers :-)

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


October 29, 2008

Q. Can you tell me if there is any aluminum in 18/8 stainless?

Thank you,

bjh

Barbara Hammar
- Corvallis, Oregon
^


A. Hi, Barbara. No, there is no aluminum in 18/8 stainless.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


sidebar October 23, 2008

Q. Thanks for the interesting discussion. I want to buy a steam cleaner, and have been looking at different models that have stainless steel boilers. Most of the boilers are 18/10 steel, but one somewhat less expensive one is made of 12/10 steel. If this means the amount of chromium is lower in the steel, will the boiler be less durable over time?

Thanks,

Janine Polk
- Eau Claire, Wisconsin
^


October 27, 2008

A. Hi, Janine. I've never heard of type 1210 stainless steel, and a quick check of google didn't reveal any such thing either. Are you sure the "1210" isn't simply a model number as opposed to a type of stainless steel?

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


November 1, 2008

No, the machine is always listed as having a 12/10 stainless boiler. It is the Unilux 3000--here are a couple links for it. In the second link check the comparison chart a little ways down the page.

www.allbrands.com/products/abp13897.html?ovchn=SPRI&ovcpn=Froogle&ovcrn=Froogle&ovtac=CMP#

www.smart-cleaning-solutions.com/site/1426224/page/825600
Ed. note Dec. 2013: that link is now broken

Actually, in the bottom chart (steam cleaners with extractors) I see there are several models with 12/10 boilers also.

Is this just a mistake, and they actually all have 18/10 stainless boilers?

Janine Polk
- Eau Claire, Wisconsin
^


November 1, 2008

Hi, Janine. Catalogs are not written by metallurgists but by marketing people, and errors creep in. In this particular case it says the boilers are made of type 304 stainless steel (which is an 18/8 stainless steel); I believe they are trying to say that the thickness of the steel is 12 gauge in the cylindrical shell and 10 gauge in the top and bottom plate/bell.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^



December 15, 2008

Q. I am about to buy a very very large quantity of stainless steel tableware for a huge dining facility I will be moving my current facility to. We serve meals to over a thousand people 3 times a day and the tableware gets a lot of use. What I have been using is 18/10, and we have specifically gotten this because it is very durable. I am trying to save money and so I am considering buying 18/8 instead. I guess I wanted some opinion on whether I should save the money buying a lower grade, or save money by having a more durable 18/10 which lasts longer. But my question is, is it really worth the difference, and based on your experience with the metals, what do you think would work better for me? Also, is 18/8 magnetic like 18/10 is.

Thank you!

Rosemary Johnson
buyer Tampa, Florida
^


December 16, 2008

A. Hi, Rosemary. 18/8 is not magnetic and neither is 18/10. 18/10 is better and more expensive but I think it's unlikely that a quality brand of 18/8 would be unsatisfactory.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


January 23, 2009

Q. I have an 18/8 stainless steel sports bottle that is magnetic as well. If 18/8 is not supposed to be magnetic, what would cause it to be so?

Patti Douglas
buyer - Portland, Oregon
^


January 26, 2009

A. Hi, Patti. Cold working during manufacture can leave 18/8 with some magnetic attraction. But if it's highly magnetic, the same as regular steel, I'd say it probably is not 18/8.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


February 8, 2009

Q. Hi...good info here. I am looking at purchasing a new set of pots and pans..the description says 18/10 lids
Ok, what are the pots made from, or are they saying lids and not addressing pots, because of the copper bottoms?
at a loss...

J FRED MUGGS
- Meadville, Mississippi
^


February 28, 2009

A. silly :-) Hi, J Fred Muggs. My sympathies that your parents made a monkey out of you!

Now please don't let the manufacturer do the same. If he doesn't claim 18/10 I think it would be a big leap of faith to assume it.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


March 11, 2009

Q. Great to see all of this chat on Stainless. I'd like to add one factor - the higher nickel content allow a much brighter and whiter shine. It's apparent in cookware as well. If you use 18/0 which I think is also 201 (not sure) in flatware and cookware it dulls quickly over time. It's still food safe just not as nice to look at after a few uses.

Bradley Smith
- Sacramento, California
^



April 4, 2009

Q. We need to replace a 28-yr old kitchen sink. Which would be more durable and best:

"20 gauge, Type 304 Series stainless steel w/satin finish 18/10 chrome-nickel content"
or
"18 gauge, 18/10 stainless steel"

We've always thought the lower gauge was better, but the Type 304 is a new wrinkle since we bought last.

Thank you.

Bobbie Cavano
consumer/buyer - Rome, New York
^


April 9, 2009

A. Hi, Bobbie. 18 gauge is heavier than 20 gauge. Type 304 and 18/10 could be essentially the same thing. The wording "type 304" is just a little more exacting about the composition than the more generic 18 percent chrome 10 percent nickel.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


April 10, 2009

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Bobbie Cavano
consumer/buyer - Rome, New York
^



Q. I was recently in India and a lot of the factories are using 14/1 and 14/04 stainless instead of 18/10. The price is reduced and the factories are saying that products manufactured from 14/1 and 14/04 pass all tests for corrosion and rust.

I would like to know more about this type of stainless steel, the strength and what defects can we expect to encounter if we use this material to manufacture giftware products.

Thanks

Diane Stevens
- Eatontown, New Jersey
^


June 18, 2009

A. Hi, Diane. I can't comment because I've never heard of it. Sorry. Does anyone know the composition or anything else about it beyond that they call it "14/1"?

If it's 14 percent chrome and 1 or 4 percent nickel, someone is counting fractions of pennies in their cost-cutting programs. How did that work out for American car makers whose mantra was "If G.M. can save 1/10¢ each on a hundred billion screws ..." just before the Japanese penchant for quality savaged our domestic auto industry?

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


June 15, 2009

Q. I'm a sales man of a stainless steel tableware factory from mainland china, so great to learn so much from those interesting discussions. However I still have a question here: in our country,we usually apply the 420 type of SS to make knife items of a tableware set. As far as I know, it's much harder but less corrosion resistance, is that due to the less nickel added to the alloy? what's more,I haven't seen any discussions about this kind of SS, while it's widely used in our country in such field, how do you name it in your country. thanks.

Tobby.Xiao
trade company - Guangzhou, China
^


A. Hi Tobby. The stainless steel used for flatware cannot hold a sharp edge. Knives used for cutting must be made of series 400, i.e., 4xx stainless steel. It will get rust pots much more readily than the 300 series, i.e., 3xx but it's a necessary thing is we want sharp knives :-)

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


July 2, 2009

A. I did some sleuthing and found out the following. The opinions stated below are from a kitchenware manufacturer. Does anyone know more about patta and if J4 is better then J7 or anything on the coil vs patta quality?
Thanks!

Begin Quote ->
Coil is a industrial form of making steel....and comes in the form of coil (sheet rolled in coil)....Jindal steel is famous for this....this grade is known as J7 in Jindal... whereas patta steel....is a brick steel and flattened in small units to make sheet... these are like 6 feet x 4 feet coil flattened... so it doesn't have consistency in quality.... and the price difference in patta 14/1 and coil 14/1 is almost 30%

14/1 Stainless steel is 14% chromium and 1% nickel. This is the highest selling material in kitchen utensils from India. We are not using J7 coil or patta, both have nickel content of 0.25 % and chromium 14%

We are using J4 patta, that is re-rolled sheets, they have nickel content of 1% and chromium 14%.

J4 is much better then J7.
<- End Quote.

Andrea Thien
- Santa Barbara, California
^


January 26, 2010

Q. Can someone comment on which type is least reactive with food? 18/10, (316) or 14/1. The information out there is confusing.

First of all, does 14/1 react with food? I have read that 18/10 is the least reactive with food. But now manufacturers of 14/1 also says it is least reactive with food because it is low in nickel and won't leach. Which is true? Or maybe both?
It's really confusing trying to sort this out without a technical background.
Thanks,
Jane

Jane Jeanni
- New York, New York
^


January 2010

A. Hi, Jane. There are multiple systems for grading or identifying stainless steel; 18/10 is one system and 316 is another. These are the best stainless steels used in consumer items and 18/10 and 316 are essentially the same thing.

I don't think 14/1 is a problem, because all stainless steels are essentially non-reactive to foods. But it is a cheaper grade because of the limited nickel content and the "low in nickel so it won't leach into foods" stuff strikes me personally as silly.

I've expressed my opinion that there is more to it than alloy composition, so as a consumer you are pretty much limited to trying to find a reliable brand. In my opinion your best guideline is to find a company which never licenses their logo. In my limited experience, most Japanese brands don't, but most American brands do.

Try to find the owners' instructions, the registration card and the warranty instructions and look for any reference to a company name or service outlet other than the brand name in question. Any company that is into "meatball whoring" in this way is, in my personal opinion, not to be trusted. I once bought an answering machine with the "IBM" meatball on all 6 faces of the box, only to discover when the piece of garbage didn't last 2 weeks, that IBM apparently had absolutely nothing to do with it and simply sold their hard-earned reputation for quick cash :-)

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


February 25, 2010

Q. I am searching for a great stainless steel flatware set without breaking the bank.
I found for the first time a 21/10 listing - Steel alloyed with chrome, titanium and brass.
Could this be considered the 'top of the line'?

Please help.
Thank you,

s Heidi Oel
customer - Sun City Center, Florida
^


February 25, 2010

A. Hi, Heidi. Here's the main problem to me: 18/8 and 18/10 have an established meaning and 21/10 doesn't.

If someone advertises 18/10 flatware and then ships you junk, claiming 18/10 meant 18 percent bent and 10 percent missing, no judge or arbitrator in the world would accept it because 18/10 has a universally accepted meaning.

What does 21/10 mean? 21 percent chrome and 10 percent nickel? Maybe, but who says? Google it and you'll see. Brass is not an element that you can have a certain percentage of; rather, it's an alloy itself that has some percentage of zinc and some percentage of copper, and possibly some percentage of tin. I would pay little attention to the "21/10" phrase, and judge whether to buy it by the rest of the description and circumstances, and especially trustable reviews. Good luck.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


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