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HOW TO RECOVER PLATINUM FROM CATALYTIC CONVERTERS



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Current postings:

May 20, 2022

I have an old engine out of my 84 VW vanagon. The cat broke when I dropped it after taking it off. With the rise in value of pgms I thought why not try and cash in on the cat. A local craigslist guy said it was worthless since the honeycomb was broken in pieces. The housing is not. All of it is there just broken and he said it is worthless. This I do not understand. Can you possibly enlighten me since the buyer seemed irritated and left not answering why.

Mark Huff
Student - Grants Pass Oregon
^

----
Ed. note: When in Rome ...
We ask that posters use their real names. Thanks for your understanding.


May 2022

A. Hi. Sorry, I don't know why the guy didn't want it ... maybe he is acting more as a junk yard offering used parts for re-use than a scrapper; or perhaps it's a matter of logistics rather than intrinsic value. ("How many cats you have for me this week?" "I have 48 whole ones, plus pieces that if you fit together ..."). I would tend to agree that the PGM recovery value is still there; but all you can do is ask someone else.

Luck & Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^




Closely related Q&A's, oldest first:

2004

Q. HI,

I BUY, SELL AND REPAIR COMPUTERS. RECENTLY I STARTED TO SAVE ALL MY COMPUTER SCRAP TO RECOVER THE GOLD THAT IS ON THE CARDS. SO ON THE OTHER HAND I STARTED TO BUY A FEW CATALYTIC CONVERTERS AS SCRAP BECAUSE I HEARD THAT IT HAS A LITTLE AMOUNT OF PLATINUM AND PALLADIUM HONEYCOMB THAT IS INSIDE THE BODY OF THE CONVERTER. SO THE POINT IS: IF SOMEONE CAN EXPLAIN TO ME OR GUIDE ME IN THE NEXT STEP TO RECOVER THE PLATINUM_PALLADIUM ONCE THE CONVERTER IS OPEN, BECAUSE THE HONEYCOMB I THINK IS MADE OF CERAMIC.

WHY I WANT TO KNOW THIS: TO PROVE TO A COUPLE OF FRIENDS THAT THE CONVERTERS HAVE A LITTLE AMOUNT OF THESE METALS. THEY THINK THAT I AM CRAZY OR NUTS.

MARIO Z [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
"hobbyist" - TIJUANA , BAJA CALIFORNIA, MEXICO
^


2004

A. If you want to do it just to prove your friends the point, then I agree to them. But if you're willing to make money out of it, be prepared to spend a decent amount of life and a little fortune with no guarantee of success up front.

Guillermo Marrufo
Monterrey, NL, Mexico
^


2005

A. We have the process for getting platinum (and other platinum grade metal from scrap catalytic converters). Listen to your friends. The platinum is there, but it is a very dangerous process and you have to know what you are doing.

Charles K [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Burtonsville, Maryland
^


wikipedia
Catalytic Converter

2006

A. Catalytic converters have precious metal in them, Mario. It's those precious metals that provide the catalytic reaction: when partially burned exhaust gasses contact these red-hot metals they burn the rest of the way. So collect on the bet! :-)

Recovery is rather dangerous and probably shouldn't be attempted by individuals though, and certainly not without specific training in chemistry and hazardous materials management. Good luck.


Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


2006

A. Yes there is Platinum in catalytic converters. You can't recover it yourself but you have to take it a place that buys gold, metals, scraps... I buy catalytic converters, I pay good money. It depends on what kind of catalytic converter you have and if it's full, or half full.

Monica M [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Louisville, Kentucky
^


2006

Q. Monica M,

Can you please explain what you mean by full or half-full.

Also, what different types of catalytic converters are there? Which ones are most desirable for resell to refiners?

Thanks - Mark

Mark W [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- San Antonio, Texas
^


2007

Q. Hi
I currently buy and sell catalytic converters to a man. He has often told me that he will be out of town selling these catalytic converters. My question is how much more is he getting paid and where does he take them to? Currently the best paid one I have had is one for $120.00, if anyone can help me please do so.

Juan M [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
buyer/seller - Seven Springs, North Carolina
^


2007

A. I think Ted was kind of on the right track with his answer, but just as wrong as the rest of the responders. You will probably not find anyone willing to give up the process that they use because they use it to recover the material themselves. It would be nice if they came right out and said that so you could use your powers of internet research on chemistry to devise your own way of extracting the materials. BTW, if a person wishes to blow themselves up or poison themselves let them do it just don't take anyone else with you.

Ron H [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Scranton, Pennsylvania
^


! Hi, Ron. Sure, people can sometimes be coy; but this site alone has tens of thousands of pages of people helping people, and there are tens of thousands of other sites like it. The main problem isn't coyness, but complexity and hazard.

Brain surgeons and rocket scientists can be coy too, but their coyness isn't the main reason you don't find simple 1-page instructions on how to do brain surgery or build a lunar landing module :-)

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


2007

Q. I have access to hundreds of catalytic converters, and want to know how to extract, not refine, the platinum from them. This would save shipping fees, but I'm not sure if I can just cut out the part containing the platinum, or do I have to strip it out?

Georgia T [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
recycler, junk dealer - Nashville, Tennessee
^


A. Hi, Georgia. You can cut the valuable part out from the steel. They will look a lot like a small muffler. The metal housing is stainless steel and contains no precious metal (although stainless steel has scrap value too!). The precious metal is in the ceramic honeycombs you find inside. But be careful to keep records -- because reputable recyclers will (hopefully) not buy from you unless you are convincing about their legitimacy. Best of luck!

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


2007

Q. Hello,
I would like to know whom I could sell the catalytic converters. I have one way to do it but it is kinda hectic. But, for the ones that want to know why they are so expensive, for an average size converter it has about 1.9 grams of platinum in the honeycomb....and do the math at 1200 dollars an ounce for platinum.

Nathan H [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Vernon, Alabama
^


"Refining Precious Metal Wastes"
by C. M. Hoke
from Abe Books
or

Affiliate Link
(your purchases make finishing.com possible)

"Recovery And Refining Of Precious Metals"
by C.W. Ammen
from Abe Books
or

Affiliate Link
(your purchases make finishing.com possible)

2007

A. I did the math as you asked, Nathan, and came up with $80. Looking at e-bay with asking prices from about $10 to $150 for scrap catalytic convertors, it seems that developing a good "buy low / sell high" strategy is an easier way to make money than doing the dangerous chemistry yourself :-)

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


2007

Q. I work in a lab and need to produce platinum from a catalytic converter on a small and safe scale, What is the best way of doing this?

Rachael C [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
work in a glass lab - Rotherham, South Yorkshire, UK
^


2007

A. I personally don't know much about it, but recovery of precious metals is a well developed industrial science, Rachel, and there are books that compare the alternative approaches and explain the chemistry in depth. Read the great reviews of Ammen's book .

If you can provide a little more detail on what you are trying to do, you will probably get better targeted and therefore more helpful answers. Thanks!

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


2007

! MY NAME IS WADE COLLINS AND I WAS TRYING TO FIND THIS PROCESS OUT MYSELF, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT NO ONE WANTS TO GIVE THIS VALUABLE INFORMATION UP IN FEAR OF OTHER PEOPLE MAKING THE KIND OF MONEY THEY'RE MAKING, I MEAN REGARDLESS OF IF IT'S A DANGEROUS PROCESS OR NOT IT'S OUR OWN DECISION IF WE WANT TO GO THROUGH WITH IT OR NOT, I MEAN THERE ARE A LOT OF DANGEROUS THINGS OUT HERE, ALCOHOL FOR ONE IS A DANGEROUS PROCESS IN EVERY WAY BUT PEOPLE NEVER DENIED US THE PROCESS OF CONSUMING IT AS WELL AS DRUGS, WORKING IN ASBESTOS AREAS, AND OTHER FOREIGN ILLNESSES, THAT WE DON'T EVEN ASK FOR, BUT TO DENY THE PEOPLE TO MAKE MONEY WHETHER YOU BELIEVE OR NOT TO BE DANGEROUS IS OUR DECISION IF WE WANT TO DO IT.

P.S.
SO FOR ANYONE WOULDN'T MIND SHARING SOME VALUABLE INFORMATION PLEASE LET ME KNOW THE PROCESS OF EXTRACTING THESE PRECIOUS METALS

Wade Collins
- ST. LOUIS, Missouri
^


 

A. Hi, Wade. My expertise is in metal finishing and running a public forum website. I've never done that refining, and only vaguely understand it, but it's not secret; it's just complex to explain when starting from zero. Johnson-Matthey & Heraeus, with their half-billion dollar precious metal refineries, are no more afraid of competition from you than Boeing is.

If you ask a very specific question, people will almost always answer; but if you say "tell me how to build a jetliner", it's not that people refuse to answer, it's that the only thing they can do is point you to the right aisle in the library; they simply can't distill those shelves of books on aeronautical engineering into 2 paragraphs.

Recovery of precious metals is a well developed science-- start by reading one of the books that we mention here, that are readily available from any large library. Give yourself a few weeks of reading and you'll be able to do it yourself or ask specific questions that people will be able to answer. Good luck.

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


January 11, 2011

thumbs up signLOL Just acquired a foreclosed estate property with acreage and found a mountain of converters waaaayy back in the woods under tarps. Couldn't for the life of me figure out what this guy was keeping them for and why he was hiding them so far from the road.

Stumbled on this thread and now I know.

Roberto Gremini
- Belvidere, Vermont USA
^


2007

Q. Hi
friends, I buy & sell many catalytic convertor, but I don't know the method for take out the platinum from it, if it's possible can you help me? How do we do it?
Regards

Jouni
- France
^


2007

A. Since "complicated and dangerous" doesn't seem to satisfy the masses on what it takes to extract precious medals from items such as catalytic converters, I'll put it in another way. The process to do so is known as carbochlorination and the simplified textbook definition of the process is as follows:

A stepwise carbochlorination--chemical vapor transport (SC--CVT) process is proposed for the rare earth extraction and separation from a mixed bastnaesite-monazite concentrate based on thermodynamic and kinetic analysis using carbon as reductant, chlorine gas as chlorination agent, SiCl4 as defluorination agent, and AlCl3 as vapor complex former. Between 500 °C and 800 °C, apparent activation energy of the carbochlorination within 2 hours changed from 22 to 16 kJ/mol roughly for the initial half hour and final 1 hour, respectively, in the absence of SiCl4; but these values reduced to 15 and 2.1 kJ/mole under 2 kPa of SiCl4 gas. The rare earth chloride yield for 2 hours was 56 to 88 mol pct in the absence of SiCl4 and 92 to 99 mol pct in the presence of SiCl4; but carbochlorination at above 1000 °C yielded a large amount of acid-insoluble residue. This, together with the negligible equilibrium vapor pressure of ThCl4 at below 600 °C, suggests that carbochlorination of the mixed concentrate at temperatures as low as 500 °C in the (Cl2 1 SiCl4) atmosphere is suitable for rare earth extraction and thorium-free volatile by-product release, which is different from the conventional Goldschmidt process at 1000 °C to 1200 °C. The CVT reaction of the carbochlorination product was performed at 800 °C for 0.5 hours in the (Cl2 1 SiCl4 1 AlCl3) atmosphere and then at 1000 °C for 6 hours in the (Cl2 1 AlCl3) atmosphere along different temperature gradients, leading to complete thorium removal and efficient rare earth separation, respectively. Their combination allows an efficient and environmentally conscious extraction and separation of rare earth elements from the mixed concentrate.

If you can't understand that then you're out of luck. there is no simpler, step by step method of doing this.

Cory Gage
- Tulsa, Oklahoma
^


2007

thumbsdownThe reason these [expletive deleted] don't want to give you the info is cause of the loss of money they would be hit with. The high value cat's get 2 to 300 dollars that hold up to 2 ounces of platinum in them. Notice you caught the eye of so many on here trying to buy yours instead of showing how you can recover 2 ounces of platinum. Now 1 ounce goes for what 1300 dollars. I wouldn't show you how to recover it either!

Zachary Rumble
- Lawton, Oklahoma
^


2007

Cory just finished taking the time to give you the 'secret' info, Zachary. But me, you, and most others don't yet have the background knowledge to understand his instructions. Any large library will have books on recovering platinum and precious metals; people may need to study those books before they understand Cory's instructions.

I bought a replacement catalytic converter from Meineke for under $150. OEM models for larger cars have more platinum but $2600 didn't sounded believable. So I spent some time on line looking for the world's most expensive catalytic converter and the highest price I could find was $2495 for a pair for a Ferrari,

Yes, the precious metals are indeed valuable ... but maybe the real issue is that there are people who want to sell scrap at ridiculous prices by exaggerating its value while implying that recovery is easy?

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


2007

I am a buyer of scrap catalytic converters.The process you ask about is very hard and dangerous. It is a process that is regulated under EPA standards. It is profitable to sell the converter as a whole unit. You can refine or have them refined in other countries if you want to gather up 3000 of them and wait 90 days on your money to come back to you. My web site buys on average 2500 catalytic converters a month. I have tried it all and to refine a converter yourself is totally crazy. There is 3 acids in the process and it becomes very explosive and at times it does explode.The proper automated machines keep the workers safe when this happens. There are several platinum groups in most converters. A large gm I pay 100.00 for it on my web site. A aftermarket converter is not worth what a factory converter is. It will only net you 10.00 as scrap. Some large converters I pay 140.00 for them and some exotic converters go higher than that, 200.00 or so. Before you find all there is to refining your own think about the people around you and the laws of the land.

Steven Gee
- Hornsby, Tennessee
^


2007

I agree with Mr. Mooney's last post. It is impossible to recover $200 in metals value from a product that RETAILS for less than $200!

Now, I do believe that finding silver/gold/Pt/Pd and other precious metals in a refinable form is still do-able at flea-markets, garage and estate sales and thrift stores - with enough time and patience. They, like others, have become much more sophisticated, so, likely they tested and 'high-graded' anything before it went out for sale.
Garage sales at private residences (NOT conducted by professional estate or auction services) remain the best candidates.

Bruce A Ades
- Carrollton, Texas
^


October 2, 2014

thumbs up signCory and Ted. Thank you for your exact (Cory) and extremely patient answers (Ted). Both answer with straight forward intelligence. If only all forums had people like you answering, this would be a smarter world. "If it was easy, everybody would do it!"

Perry Swanson
- Macon, Georgia, USA
^



2007

I am new to scrap metal. I want to get the metal out of these items. Does anybody know a melt down place to retrieve these metals? I want to make a living doing scrap metal. Vicky in Los Angeles

Victoria Blanchard
hobbyist - Los Angeles, California
^


2007

The carbochlorination behavior of scrapped honeycomb-type automobile catalysts was investigated using a chlorine and carbon monoxide gas mixture to fully extract platinum and rhodium in the catalysts. The recoveries of platinum, rhodium, and base metals are monitored by ICP-AES analyses. Upflow type of fixed-bed carbochlorination experiments were performed between 250 and 700 C. The effects of flow rate, time, and partial pressures of chlorine and carbon monoxide were also determined. After optimization of these parameters, the recoveries of about 95.9% of platinum and 92.9% of rhodium were obtained at 550 C. The recovered condensate was contaminated by various base metal chlorides. The chlorides generated from the base metals could be minimized by decreasing the flow rate of the gas mixture without any deterioration of PGM recoveries, but at the expense of the volatility. The carbochlorination of scrapped automobile catalysts could be an efficient way for the profitable recovery of platinum and rhodium chlorinated compounds at comparatively low temperatures. sorry I can't find the credits

Brian McKee
- Buffalo, New York
^


January 26, 2008

I agree with most of the comments here. The process is not one that everyone should be trying. It is much easier to just find someone who is doing it all the time. There are a few good companies that would be happy to buy all the CCs you can get them.

If you want to try something try to recover gold. It is plenty dangerous enough for the thrill seekers and you are much more likely to have a good outcome. After you have done a few hundred pounds of gold then you can move up to this.

I should mention scale is very important when it comes to profit margins on both of these processes.

Michael Biggs
- Princeton, Texas
^


January 29, 2008

Q. Recovery of metals from cats is difficult! Is it possible to recondition the cat ready for re installation, e.g., Vacuum baking to remove volatiles followed by baking in air to burn off carbon?

Mickey Louvel
chemist - Hampshire, U.K.
^


February 10, 2008

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5542957-description.html
Here you will find several ways to extract the metals. And for everyone out there who enjoys censoring information to the masses, tisk tisk.

Adam Underwood
- Mobile, Alabama
^


February 10, 2008

Have you seen anyone censoring anything, Adam?

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


sidebar February 11, 2008

About 4 years ago I was traveling along the highway and a catalytic converter dislodged it's self from the vehicle in front of me. I didn't have time to get out of it's way and ran over it at 110 km/h(70 MPH). I stopped to check the damage and remove the converter and tailpipe from the road. The replacement bumper and paintwork cost me $780.00. I burnt my hands dragging the thing from the road. I decided to take my leather jacket off and break the red hot pipe from the converter, so I too could own some PLATINUM. The sole of my shoe and my jacket were destroyed in this process, but I persevered and finally broke the catalytic converter off. I placed it in the truck of my vehicle and raced it home. I did the first aid on my hands, cried over the stuffed jacket & shoe and proceeded to take to the thing with my oxy-acetylene cutter. To my surprise, it was just an old muffler! What a day! Enjoy your converter people...PJC

Peter Carey
- Perth, Western Australia
^


February 11, 2008

I wonder where all these people are getting ALL these cats. I wonder because somebody just hacked mine off my Jeep with a Sawsall. Or is it just a burning curiosity? Maybe we should have some legal authority monitoring of this thread, eh? And no, having some knowledge of it, you do not want to refine the tiny bit of metal in each without a lab behind you. It's dangerous plus you'll lose money.

James Monroe
- San Francisco, California
^


February 19, 2008

Those of you wanting more for your converters are in a jam. Prices are based on types, quantity, volume, and remember everyone has to make a profit or they would be out of business.

Cindy Reynolds
- Prairie Du Chien, Wisconsin
^


March 11, 2008

How do I know if my converter cartridge has any material left in it? I have access to cartridges which have been removed from converters. How do I know if there is any precious metals left in them.

Doug Dugan
hobbyist - Springfield, Ohio
^


sidebar March 16, 2008

The cat's are disappearing here in Minn..so they have just passed a law that the purchaser must get the id of the seller which helps determine if a Jeep cat was cut off and a Jeep cat was sold the next day they can find you..in a perfect world...I know there are ways around but at least we are trying.. Thanks and good luck all.

Kurt Crosby
- Kilkenny, Minnesota
^


March 19, 2008

I own a salvage company, I have no interest in recovering the platinum. I just want to sell the cat. So can some one give me a price list, how much money I will receive for which model? I don't want to give 50 and get 30.

James Wilson
- Dalton, Georgia
^


April 24, 2008

I too used to think like most of you until I talked to a gentleman who owns a bronze sculpture foundry. I in turn found out the secret. A Crucible and crucible furnace is all you need along with some Borax [affil. link to info/product on Amazon] and silica sand. You can find the plans for a furnace online easily. Easy to assemble and use. Platinum and Palladium are each different weights and one has a higher melting point than the other so when cooling down they tend to separate somewhat. When you pour the mold it will cool and the slag can be removed with a small hammer. and then you have almost pure platinum and palladium.

Do some research it is not that hard to search this stuff. The reason most people don't do it is they are either dreamers or just too stupid or flat out too lazy to try when they find out what it takes. The average cc contains around (if all used up) about a 1/4 oz. One that came off of a [certain model] that had been wrecked before it got used almost new produces close to 3 oz. Don't let the buyers of cc's lie and say they don't hardly get much more from you on them from their buyers. They make a lot and the guys who melt them make a killing. Do your research if you want to make money. It is doable and should be done by anyone with half a brain!

chuck graham
- Purcell, Oklahoma
^


April 24, 2008

The "low" price for platinum today was $1951/oz., the low price for palladium was $432/oz. So if we assume the car maker uses half palladium and half platinum it would cost them $3575 to charge a converter? Some convertors are worth more than others, but something doesn't add up, Chuck.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


April 26, 2008

The new converters that they sell are not like the ones that come on the new car. They use a pgm that is not as high as platinum or pall. These are after market. They don't care if it costs them 3 grand to produce one for the new car because they will add that to the new car price. Just an example: before the cc came out on new cars the value of a car was in the mid thousand dollar range. Like in the 70's a new car (not a Cadillac mind you) but a regular car was around 7,000 dollars.
When the cc was added because of emissions control cars started becoming 10 to 12000 dollars. This fit with the plan and now it will cost 18,000 and up. They use the price of the car to offset the cc that has the platinum inside. the new cats that you get are either reconditioned or made of cheap stuff. If I buy one that came off of a new car it will yield way more than that of a knock off. Also with a lot of states like here that require an inspection sticker no more, They can put less of the valuable components into them for sale in these states and still be in compliance. To sum it all up if you buy for 100.00 you have to make a profit. If you don't you are just spinning your wheels. I just smelted an '89 and produced 1/3 oz of platinum on a dead one. It is there and I make a lot on it every weekend. I average 2 to 3,000.00 every weekend on cc's. I also extract gold from plated cosmetic jewelry and have a good time doing it in my spare time. If people would take the time to do it right they would make a lot of extra money for themselves. You just have to be safe doing it so you don't hurt your self in the process.

Chuck

Chuck Graham [returning]
- Purcell, Oklahoma
^


April 29, 2008

How much precious metal is in 60 grams of catalytic converter flakes? Hi someone please help me with these questions:

1) on ebay people sell collected flakes of platinum from catalytic converters, How much platinum is in 60 grams of these flakes?

2) where can I sell it?

3) how much can I expect to get per ounce of this stuff?

Thanks for your help

Joe Goday
interested in getting involved - San Francisco, California
^


April 25, 2008

Hi, I recently inherited a mini junk yard, I have been selling the vehicles off one by one, some for scrap at $90 to $100 each. I'd like to know: are the cars/trucks with the catalytic converters intact worth more? I'm I being ripped off? Yesterday I found approx. ten converters in a shed, would it be worth it to purchase a Crucible furnace and extract the platinum/palladium myself? It seems to me that the older and heavier ones would be more valuable. I'm I right in my assumption? Thanks for any help you can give me.

Kathie Meli
junk yard owner - Tooele, Utah
^


April 30, 2008

Reflux the honeycomb in aqua regia (HCl, HNO3), strain the resulting solution and dispose of the ceramic. treat with Ammonium chloride. evaporate, wash with HCl, dry and heat to 500 °C to remove impurities.

Steve Shaw
- Honeoye Falls, New York
^


May 12, 2008

I have 6 or so cars that I have been dragging my feet about getting rid of- with the recent out-break of thefts, I think I should remove and scrap my converters before calling the junk dealer and just giving the cars away. How do I or the recycler now the value of each? Surely they do not take them apart on the spot, do they? Or, do they just weigh them and give you a set price- regardless? Just wondering if it will be worth my while to jack up and climb under and cut off the converters. Also, is there other parts that might be worth my while to scrap, like the starters & alternators? I know they have the copper windings inside. I also know they pay a lot less for 'dirty' metal as I scraped some aluminum window frames a few years ago and was paid a lot less for the ones that had screws and other metal still attached. I am currently in between jobs and could use the money to get me through.

Carol Stevens
- Olalla, Washington
^


June 13, 2008

Well I am sure we are all tired of hearing the same questions over and over again and that is "HOW". Well, stop asking the how and just ask what's the best way to make the most money you can. That part is soooo simple anyone can do it. First of all get a 55 gallon barrel and then start collecting converters. Punch a hole in the converters and the beads will usually fall out. You will notice there are different colored beads, the dark ones are the trash and the other lighter colored ones are the metals you're looking for. Now I am no rocket scientist but it sure don't take one to fill up that 55 gallon barrel and have it shipped to a refiner in Cali. A barrel full is worth about 20,000 USD, so what's your choice? I for one will stick to watching "How Its Made" on the Discovery channel and learn from the Pro's on how to safely recycle converters. And by the way if you're still wanting to try it all yourselves, then you will need hydrochloric acid, muriatic acid so you can mix them in the right amounts to make the acid that is needed to extract the metals. I won't go into more detail than that, you can go find what your looking for on the Discovery network, I am sure they will have a re-run there.

Dale R [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Texas
^


June 17, 2008

"And by the way if you're still wanting to try it all yourselves, then you will need hydrochloric acid, muriatic acid so you can mix them in the right amounts to make the acid that is needed to extract the metals. I won't go into more detail than that, you can go find what you're looking for on the Discovery network, I am sure they will have a re-run there."

thumbsdownSee it is that one lil sentence that is a bunch of bull, "I wont go into more detail than that." why in the heck can't you people share what you know? instead you have to be all secretive and say oh it's dangerous and you need all these poisonous chemicals. Why? just to try to discourage us because you don't want us possibly taking your profit if were in your area. all metal will melt at some point. so why not just melt it out (after all you probably do) because its easier. you tell us about chemicals to thwart us from trying when you people are probably just tossing them into a furnace and pouring brick after brick.

Tyler E [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Norfolk, Virginia
^


June 19, 2008

Hi, Tyler.

But instead of thanking anyone for their help, you demand that someone explain in one paragraph how people of unknown skill and experience, perhaps without basic chemistry knowledge, can perform a precious metal refining process, "pouring brick after brick" of precious metal. It's just ridiculous.

Please study, and then ask any detailed question you wish and people will probably be delighted to answer it.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


June 27, 2008

OH, GOOD GRIEF! Y'KNOW, TED....YOU ALWAYS HAVE SUCH A RESERVED CONTROL WITH YOUR RESPONSES TO THESE POSTS AND I DO ADMIRE YOU FOR THAT. BELIEVE ME...I UNDERSTAND JUST HOW OFTEN YOU MUST BITE YOUR LIP AND GIVE A SIGNIFICANT PAUSE TO REFLECT ON THE ABSURDITIES SOME OF THESE POSTERS KEY-OUT. ONE HAS TO WONDER IF THEY ARE JOKING WITH US OR (even worse) ARE ACTUALLY SERIOUS ABOUT SOME OF THEIR FANTASTIC BELIEFS AND STATEMENTS. I DEAL WITH VARIOUS SEGMENTS OF THE PGM RECYCLING INDUSTRY ON A DAILY (and nightly) BASIS AND EVERY TIME I THINK THAT I'VE HEARD IT ALL..AND BEFORE MY SIDE STOPS HURTING FROM UNCONTROLLED LAUGHTER...I HEAR SOMETHING EVEN FUNNIER. YEAH...I GET A REGULAR DOSE OF COMMENTS FROM INDIVIDUALS CLAIMING THAT THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME SORT OF CONSPIRACY WITH REGARD TO ACTUAL RETRIEVABLE PGM LOADS FROM VARIOUS AUTO CATALYSTS AND INDUSTRIAL SUCCENTS. SO MANY OF THEM DO BELIEVE THAT WE MUST BE SALVAGING MANY, MANY TIMES THE ACTUAL AMOUNTS OF THOSE PRECIOUS METALS THAT EXIST IN THE SPENT CATALYSTS.

AND THEY ALSO BELIEVE THAT THE PROCESS IS SIMPLE AND COSTS VERY LITTLE TO DO IT. TED, I SWEAR, IN ANY MONTH, I COULD GATHER ENOUGH STORY MATERIAL TO MAKE A VERY BIZARRE COMEDY. I SUPPOSE THAT I WOULD NEED TO WRITE-IN A FEW CHASE SCENES AND OTHER HI-TENSION SUBJECT MATTER TO HOLD GENERAL AUDIENCE INTERESTS. BUT, I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD WANT TO INCLUDE THE PERSONAL REALITY OF ME WAKING UP IN A COLD-CLAMMY SWEAT, SCREAMING..FOR HOURS AND HOURS,(on a good night) FROM DREAMING ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THESE MISDIRECTED, NAIVE AND SOMETIMES HYSTERICAL PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY TO ME ON THE PHONE OR eMAIL. AAARRRRAGGGAAAHHHHH! OK,...OK...I'M ALRIGHT NOW..gonna pour myself a good brandy. THERE. I'LL GET THROUGH THIS TONIGHT...I WILL... OK, NOW....'TILL IT STARTS ALL OVER AGAIN TOMORROW MORNING.. I, Umm...I HAVE NOTHING TO SAY.........

R. Allen Cook
pgm refiner - Moreno Valley, California
^


July 4, 2008

why when someone lays it out for you you think its wrong?
its not safe you can't do it in your house or basement if you get it wrong you die!
SO look it up and then think about it!
get it wrong, you're dead and everyone close to you.
can't fix dumb

terry Pearson
- rock springs, Wyoming
^


July 4, 2008

I have started down the Aqua regia route for reclaiming PMG's from cats which I'm quite comfortable with, being a retired scientist(chemist). I do like Chuck's method however and if I had seen it early enough would have gone down that road as it appears nice and clean. What I can't fathom with Chuck's method though is that separation of the PMG's seem to be straight forward but the scientific papers on the subject say you only get separation of the PMG's if you use a carrier metal such as copper. Perhaps the key to it is the flux's that Chuck uses! Any comments, Chuck?

Bob Keen
- Palmerston Nth, New Zealand
^


July 4, 2008

Also, I too am interested in procuring platinum from catalytic converters. I have read these questions and also the answers in great detail tying to resolve the correct procedures to make these extractions of platinum. However, could someone give the correct Step #1 Open up the converter with a torch, Step #2 Strip the insides of the converter and place into a large crucible, Step #3 Melt all of the contents, etc. and so on until the last step of removing slag from the platinum. I have tried googling on the internet and I have not found any significant "steps" to extract platinum from converters. Is there any one who can steer us folks in the correct step by step procedures? What # step do the different chemicals get added in? As soon as I obtain the correct step by step procedures for the extraction of platinum from auto catalytic converters, I will post it on the major internet services (google, yahoo, etc.) for all to use. I would like to thank whom ever sends this information so that it can be distributed to people who do need extra income for their families.

Thank you again, Sincerely, I Remain,

Don Weaver
hobbyist - Palacios, Texas
^


sidebar July 9, 2008

Why is it that all these cat convertor thieves are asking how to extract the platinum, that is how we know there is no real interest in the metal other than its resale value, if anyone had done their homework, they would know that the current market price for an ounce of platinum is closer to $4k, the current market for rhodium is closer to £18K.

Scott Edgeler
- London, England
^


July 9, 2008

Hi, Scott. I personally think people are misguided in their amateur precious metal recovery efforts, but I have no reason to assume they are thieves. I guess in some areas there is catalytic converter theft but I've never heard of an incident in my local newspapers or on my TV stations, and my son who is a local cop here hasn't seen any incidences of it either.

If you've suffered a theft yourself, I'm sorry for you -- but please don't demand that we make the presumption that anyone we see climbing the church steps is on their way to rob the poor box :-)

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


July 11, 2008

OMG....IT'S STARTING AGAIN. PLEEZ, STOP IT SCOTT. WHY ARE You QUOTING SUCH ABSURD SPOT-PRICES FOR PLATINUM AND PALLADIUM? IF YOU WILL REFER TO THE CURRENT DAILY PGM CHARTS DISPLAYED BY KITCO, YOU WILL KNOW A LITTLE MORE ABOUT WORLD MARKET PRECIOUS METALS BUYING AND SELLING VALUES. C'MON, SCOTT....JUST KEY-OUT "KITCO" OK? I'M GONNA GO TO BED NOW...GAWD.

r. allen cook
- moreno valley, California
^



July 14, 2008

My question is for chuck who last posted on this topic back in April. You said that you reclaimed gold from jewelry. I am interested in getting into this so I have been doing some research, but I have some questions.

I know when they are refining gold after being mined they use a combination of these five chemicals Manganese Dioxide, fluoride, Silica flour, Borax [affil. link to info/product on Amazon], and Sodium Nitrate to remove the impurities from the gold. Could you use these same chemicals when melting jewelry? How does this process work? How much of each chemical should be used? What do you use?

Also I was thinking of using an electric kiln capable of 2300 F, along with a graphite crucible, would this work? How many times do you have melt the gold to remove all of the impurities? Does the waste or slag eventually come to the surface and then it is easy to pour out or do you have to strain it somehow?

How do you measure the purity of gold? Where do you sell your gold when your done? What kind of price should I expect for an ounce of refined gold? (I know what gold is worth, but I am not sure how close to full price I would be able to get for it).

Any answers anyone can provide on this topic would be greatly appreciated. I intend to go to the library to do more research but if I could talk to someone who has actually done something like this it would help.

Garret Boyer
- Vista, California
^


July 14, 2008

Some pertinent information for potential cat processors. The large English company of Johnson Matthey supply 1 in 3 cars worldwide with cats. They indicate that in 1993 cats contained 60 g of precious metals but with new technologies this has been reduced so that now cats only contain 5 g of precious metals and this equates approximately to 3.19 g platinum, 1.04 g palladium and 0.78 g rhodium - so it looks as though if you want to get the most out of cat processing you grab the earlier cats most of whom will contain only platinum and palladium.

Bob Keen
- Palmerston North, New Zealand
^


July 14, 2008

1. I have some chemistry lab experience, including concentrated acids. I am very tempted to try my hand at recovering metals from cats. The info is available on the web, however, the chemicals required are, in fact, very dangerous. If you mess up, you will not get a second chance. Think boiling acid, fire, explosion - take your pick.

2. Friend of mine runs a repair shop; about 15 cats a week. He is currently getting $30 each. Is this a reasonable price? He works primarily on higher priced cars.

3. Because cats run at extremely high temperatures, the steel parts are high grade and not easy to cut. (I'm not talking about the pipes on either side, but the body of the cat itself.) You want a plasma cutter to work at speed.

Every step towards recovering platinum, etc. in a cat has a value:

A. Guy picks up cats from repair shops; he pays them X per.

B. He can sell them to a processor for X, plus Y for (1) the work and expense of collecting them and (2) developing his network of suppliers (the repair shops).

C. The processor must cut open the cats and remove the core (that's where the platinum is.) The processor can sell the core for X + Y, plus Z for .... You see where this is leading.

You have to decide where you want to fit in the process. The value of your part of the process depends on how much work you want to do, what you know (like chemistry), and what you are good at. (If you are good with people, you might do very well building relationships with owners of repair shops.)

Frank Richardson
- Ardsley, New York
^


July 14, 2008

I'll take the easy road .. what year did they start and stop putting the precious beads in these converters?
Actually it's a question of curiosity .. since no one has asked it yet.

Laura Shea
- Phoenix, Arizona USA
^


July 18, 2008

Ted
Wow, get a life.

If you read through this post and all the threads you will find that there are two pools of thought.

1. this is a chemical process that is dangerous, difficult and dirty and is a 'pro's only' game requiring much knowledge to avoid death and harm - like playing with VooDoo dolls or something...

And actually they are right. High temp acid and playing with chemical mixtures at any temperature is a great start to a bad weekend.

OR

2. This is a basic process of extraction. The level you wish to extract to depends on the level of work & knowledge OR test & try you - that you apply.

Bottom line if you are happy with less recovery, or you are happy to concentrate the cores to the point that that you are comfortable with and learn as you go then that is a great plan. You do NOT have to use a complex and dangerous chemical process to recover these metals unless you need high yield recovery.

I liked the post that spoke to finding your place in the distribution chain i.e. sourcing the CCs. Then learn / test the next step and so forth. You do not need to break out the boiling acid to make a buck. start at step 1, get some cats and refine your process through the chain as you feel comfortable and safe. No chem degree required or magical explosions or secretive myths.

Yes, they are making a killing but only the ones that stay quiet, do multiple levels in the process and avoid what they are not good at - be it chemistry or people (Ted).

Suggestion: if you do not need cash but want to start a play just start stockpiling CCs. when you get better later and have more skills and contacts you can convert for cash or refine it to the next step of stripping the cores well. So do your 55 gallon drum but keep the drum & learn or sell it only once you know more about its real value. i.e. learn to buy cats, learn to safely strip cats, learn to compact the cores, refine...

Then if you decide the biz (or parts of the biz) is not for you you can sell your cores and cash out and probably make more because the metal prices keep going up. Take a long term view.

One last point is keep in mind the cores are dangerous from step 1. There are carcinogens (cancer causing agents) in exhaust and many bad chemicals - that why they are in the car. So you are dealing with some pretty bad radicals so be safe, wear breathing and other protection. Be mindful of environmental impacts and keep the cores well stored.

Imagine though if you bought CC for 5 years, stripped the cores, did a fast refinement to concentrate and then started doing the processing side.... or sell it as-is. That's when you cash in. Get rich quick? Nope. Get wealthy as you go - yip.

Jolly Roger

PS Ted nothing actually against you however I see your feedback and others in the business as being very transparent including mr CAPITALS. Its a closed poverty and scarcity mindset that tries to infect others with the difficulty you found learning it, instead why not try to help - don't outline problems but give better solutions so they can learn and grow.

Jon Decker
personal interest - Dallas, Texas
^


July 18, 2008

Hi, Jon. I don't engage in any business except the advertising revenue from this website, so I don't know what you mean about "your feedback and others in the business as being very transparent".

You may be right that my chemistry and people skills aren't good; still, they've been adequate to keep this site going since 1989 and, although I may be slow, I've learned that the most important thing necessary for a public forum is to not print ad hominem attacks. So we'll be happy to print more postings from you, but only if they talk about the topic rather than the other posters.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


July 19, 2008

I have been searching for company or companies that recycle auto catalytic converter to transact business with. company that buy complete cat converter or buy those that have been removed from the case, calculated in kg?
I get my goods from Europe, Africa and Asia. I want a direct dealer.

Collins Emeka Ali
wholesaler - Taunusstein, Hessen, Germany
^


July 20, 2008

I think you should look at what other products have Platinum in them there must be other applications that are not so hard to find electronics maybe?

L. Mims
Research - Brunswick, Georgia
^


July 21, 2008

just a quick note...your use of ounces and the confusion of value may be because the measure of TROY ounces for platinum is different from a standard ounce I believe

MARCUS Hardy
- Atlanta, Georgia
^


July 22, 2008

Hey Dale you said that you can ship a 55 gallon barrel full of CC beads to a refinery in CA. What's the name of the refinery?

Did you actually fill up a 55 gallon barrel full of the beads and sell it for $20,000 to a refinery in CA, or did you just hear from someone that you could sell them for that much. I called around to a few places and they say you can't get nearly that much for them. Please explain.

Garret Boyer
- Vista, California
^


July 22, 2008

I believe I know how, but it is dangerous. I have done this with gold, and believe you can do it with platinum. you will need to dissolve it in a hot aqua regia. aqua regia is made with hydrochloric and nitric acids. acids are very dangerous when you heat them. after you dissolve the platinum you can recover it by filtering out the acid through a coffee filter. gold appears as a white powder on the filter. I am not sure about platinum. the melting point of platinum is 1755 °C. much hotter than gold at 1063 °C I hope this helps and gives you enough information that you will be able to make a good decision on is it really worth it!

Dennis Misenar
- Bremerton, Washington
^


Ed. note: Regarding theft of catalytic convertors, see-- blog.wired.com/cars/2008/02/as-platinum-soa.html


July 30, 2008

Hey, I got me some cat converters we found just hangin off the cars in the walmart parkin lot, and me and some of my buds here in the trailer park are thinkin of settin up an advanced precious metals extraction lab in my shed (thinkin of callin it "Hazmat Heaven") and I wanna know from you people what's a cheap easy way I can learn from one post, to get the $50,000 worth of palladium, platinum, titanium, uranium, and kryptonite and stuff. And don't ask me to do too much readin!

(No, but seriously folks, here's a message from a Firefighter/EMT/Hazmat Tech: You have no more business doing "do it yourself" metallurgy of this type than you have making your own fireworks or booze. Wait, what? Oh, never mind. Well, please at least warn the folks at 9-1-1 before you start. See you soon.)

Fred Weivraer
- Grand Rapids, Michigan
^


August 4, 2008

hey I'm touss in ga and want to know more about selling these cats I have in my junk cars! please do help who buys them and how much?

touss black
auto sales - morrow, Georgia
^


August 8, 2008

I am going to explain the easiest way to do this, However keep in mind that it can be extremely dangerous if you are not constantly paying attention. Chuck was the smartest and closest poster yet. First you take the contents of the CC whether it be beads or honeycomb and melt it. This can be done in a 30 gallon steel barrel with a crucible inside. You will have to crack the ceramic in a few places to accelerate the melt. It is best to use a large ceramic coated cooks pot so you don't have to transfer the liquid later. After the melt has cooled cover half of it with chemically pure nitric acid, cover the remainder with water, this makes the acid start to work. Next take it to an area far away from human traffic , the fumes and smoke are truly DEADLY. Put this on an old gas barbecue with a side burner and heat it . the acid will eat everything but gild and platinum metals . take what is left in the bottom of the pot to a refiner and they will refine it and pay you much more than you will get if you sell them whole. REMEMBER this is very dangerous but it works

Angelo C [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
retired - St. Petersburg, Florida
^


November 12, 2008

Sorry folks had to say something on the subject, I don't normally write on forums just read them. Anyhow it's not anyone's place to say you shouldn't experiment with these suggestions, most discoveries are made from mistakes after all. But I will say: DO NOT LISTEN TO Angelo C
retired - St. Petersburg, FL.... NEVER ADD WATER TO ACID. If you add water to acid, you form an extremely concentrated solution of acid initially. So much heat is released that the solution may boil very violently, splashing concentrated acid out of the container! If you add acid to water, the solution that forms is very dilute and the small amount of heat released is not enough to vaporize and spatter it. So Always Add Acid to water, and never the reverse.

Dave tupps
- Swansea, Wales, U.K.
^


December 21, 2008

"DO NOT LISTEN TO Angelo Casa
retired - St. Petersburg, FL.... NEVER ADD WATER TO ACID. If you add water to acid, you form an extremely concentrated solution of acid initially. So much heat is released that the solution may boil very violently, splashing concentrated acid out of the container! If you add acid to water, the solution that forms is very dilute and the small amount of heat released is not enough to vaporize and spatter it. So Always Add Acid to water, and never the reverse."


I completely disagree...let's pretend I have a 5 gallon pail with 1 gallon of hydrochloric acid in it. Now, I add another gallon of the same acid to the 5 gallon pail. I am only changing the volume of acid, not the concentration. Once weekly, at my place of employment, I must fill a 55 gallon drum with 10 gallons of hydrochloric acid and then dilute with 45 gallons of water. This has been done this way every week since the place opened in 1967. Never been a problem with it...

Chris Jones
- Neenah Wisconsin
^


Hi, Chris. If you add water to an acid which is already sufficiently diluted, it may cause no problem. But Angelo is correct about the principle, and it's the safe procedure to learn, and then you'll never have a problem wondering whether the acid is weak enough to keep you out of trouble.

When water and acid are mixed, heat is produced; this is called the heat of liberation. The principle is that some droplets of water are added to strong acid, you can have a situation where those droplets are surrounded by concentrated acid and as it begins to mix, the heat of liberation can be great enough to flash those droplets of water to steam and blow concentrated acid out of the mixing container. This isn't just book stuff, it's real stuff that has injured many people.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
^


August 21, 2008

A query to Chuck - Hi Chuck, you have been rather shy in coming back with answers but you may come back on this one.
I've carried out a literature search the results of which indicate that with the crucible furnace approach the temperature of the contents of the crucible must be such as to melt the precious metal under consideration for it to form a button of metal in the bottom of the mould. This means it takes a crucible furnace that can melt bronze if you want to recover silver or gold but you need a special crucible furnace that can reach above the upper limit of iron to at least melt the palladium which would act as a carrier metal for platinum which melts at a higher temperature. Does this not fit in with your description of the two metals being melted?
As I see it for any one who has, or can build a crucible furnace capable of melting bronze your still in the picture. Carry out a large scale fire assay approach and add litharge to the flux mix. The PbO is reduced to lead which acts as a carrier metal for the precious metals, then dissolve the lead (and the palladium will also go) out of the button with nitric acid leaving the platinum behind. If any of you readers try this approach please report back on the minimum amount of litharge you can use and don't be so damn secretive.

Bob Keen
- Palmerston North, New Zealand
^


August 22, 2008

... Iron, Steel, Tin, Zinc, Aluminum, Copper, Mercury, Sliver, Gold, Platinum ...

Yes, there is always danger in attempting to extract precious or semi-precious metal due to the heat and gas-release aspect.

All must be MELTED (smelted)to a liquid or semi-liquid state in order to separate it from all other metals/minerals/waste.

Different metals require different temperatures to melt/smelt/separate.

All metals give off varying degrees of toxic fumes during the smelting process.

Some metals must undergo multiple smeltings to be purified to a level which makes "recovery/collection" feasible.

What is the process for extraction/recovery of platinum from vehicle catalytic converters that makes it "risky" or "near-impossible"?

... just curious

.... G'Day !

... rch

Richard Howell
- Jackson, Mississippi
^


August 26, 2008

My, what a strange and interesting corner of the internet this is to have stumbled into.

Ted, you are truly a wise man replying calmly to a variety of wildly different and equally stupid comments in your own due time. Keep up the good work. As an outsider having come in this subject with an impartial point of view and having reached a conclusion, let me say to others before they post:

IF YOU ARE THINKING OF TRYING TO GET INTO THE PRECIOUS METALS EXTRACTION BUSINESS AS A SMALL TIME PERSONAL BUSINESS, DON'T.
You can only profit from refining the platinum if you are set up to do it in a professional working environment, i.e. foundry equipment. This requires $millions. Forget it.

IF YOU ARE THINKING OF STEALING CATALYTIC CONVERTERS TO SELL FOR PROFIT, DON'T.
It is a risky criminal venture and you'll be making probably about $50 off of it. There are easier ways to scrounge up fifty bucks.

Cheers

Ian Vollers
- Houston, Texas
^


October 13, 2008

I am trying to come up with enough platinum from an automobile's catalytic converters to build the stacks,cathode and anode for a 7 kw solid oxide fuel cell to produce electricity. Can anyone steer me in the right direction and method to obtain the elements that is inside the catalytic converter. Like how to separate the platinum from the other elements,and the ceramic that are found in cat converters. And further is it possible and feasible and cost effective?

William Perry
researcher - West Blocton, Alabama
^


October 27, 2008

Hi
I have a reactor for leaching catalysts same catalytic convertors process is simple and effective recovery platinum is 97% in this process we load pacol catalyst about 15 KG then add sodium cyanide 60 liter 1% after 2 h and 160 c platinum and other precious metals dissolve we recover solution on anionic resin after burning resin we have pure platinum then this platinum purified.

Mahmoodbeigi
- Esfahan, Iran
^


Puritest gold, silver, platinum test kit


Affiliate Link
(your purchases make finishing.com possible)

November 21, 2008

I need to find the device that is used to identify which precious metal I have acquired. Some precious metals are obvious but, platinum,silver,aluminum, and zinc are hard for me to identify unless I already know what it is.

So if you know where to acquire one......please reply......if not sorry for wasting your time.

Dennis Klabel
peddler - Lexington, Kentucky
^


December 15, 2008

I was given some platinum shavings from my father in law, I don't know how much of it is pure or not but I'm having a hard time finding a place I can sell to. If anyone knows of a place it would be most helpful.

Travis Watkins
- hollis, Alaska
^


December 19, 2008

I must add that thus far, it seems that some haven't even read the whole forum. Most of the new questions have been answered farther back. As for being informed and the morality of "stealing" a process, I think that you should read up and lean the do and don'ts of the process but in the end, simple or not, everyone should be allowed to experiment with these processes and perhaps learn a better way to extract these precious metals.

The real reason, though, that I am responding is if you check up about gas and other such fossil fuel emissions, you will learn that gold, platinum, palladium, etc... are found in these fuels and are released into the air upon burning. The cats actually catch these metal particles, adding to the cat's original metal content. This makes the cats more valuable than they actually started off as and this discovery had been made some 30 years ago. The process of extracting these materials was only partially aired on TV not too long ago where the spokesman of the company let slip that cats do the same filtering and collecting as his plant does through filtering emissions. This is why you can buy a $200 cat and 5 years later, sell it for about $100 (where it just seems to be an old piece of junk) The gentleman had shown a tray of blackish powder and stated that its contents were platinum and palladium (mostly) and was worth over 3 million dollars.

Think about it. You may be doing a small favor to the environment, but the refineries wouldn't be there unless it was absolutely worth it. You are in fact collecting these precious materials for someone else to make a lot of profit, even though the process is complex enough. If you can refine it yourself though the above mentioned process by the others, do so. Better to have the money in your pocket than someone else's. Good luck and be careful.

Mike Brown
- Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
^


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