netneut
finishing.com -- The Home Page of the Finishing Industry
A website for Serious Education, promoting Aloha,
& the most FUN smiley you can have in metal finishing


Finishing.com has been free for 22 years,
but without net neutrality we could soon
cease to exist. Do us a solid, click on
the banner, and contact congress today!
HomeFAQsBooksHelpWantedAdvertiseForum
topic 17976

Cleaning pennies for science project ...INTERNET IS WRONG!



A discussion started in 2002 & continuing through 2017

(2002)

Q. Okay, so I did this science experiment on which liquid cleanses pennies most efficiently, and when I did my research, all of the places I went to said that acids cleanse the pennies better, but when I did the experiment, glass-cleaner with ammonia worked the best, and ammonia is a BASE! So did my experiment go wrong, or am I right and everyone else is wrong? (I wish!)

Melissa
- Port Orange, Florida


simultaneous (2002)

A. Copper, especially copper salts, react with ammonia solution to form a very deep blue cuprammonium salt complex. Hence I am not surprised you got a reaction; however, I am surprised it was faster than acids. I suppose you learn something every day and you have now seen the wonders of science and the importance of not believing everything you are told. Good luck and keep on experimenting.

trevor crichton
Trevor Crichton
R&D practical scientist
Chesham, Bucks, UK


(2002)

A. I tried ammonia to see for myself, and I found it completely ineffective, Melissa. But part of the problem with this question is what do we mean by 'cleansing'? Most students mean removing 'tarnish', the brown color on pennies. But if you mean 'removing dirt, oil & grease, and fingerprints', then you are probably right. Ammonia is a good cleanser, it just didn't seem to me to be a good copper tarnish remover.

Ted Mooney, finishing.com Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey


(2002)

A. I'm doing a project on cleaning pennies. I know for a fact that vinegar and salt can clean pennies.

Shewnsey [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Chicago, Illinois, United States


(2003)

Q. I recently conducted an experiment and found ammonia to clean pennies much more effective than vinegar. Can anyone explain the chemical reaction of copper oxide and ammonia? (CuO + NH3, I think?) and why a weak base was more effective? I'm puzzled.

Beau O. [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Austin, Texas


December 29, 2011

A. The chemical reaction of Copper Oxide and Ammonia (CuO + NH3) can be explained in the equation NH3 + CuO = Cu + N2 + H2O where the Oxygen Molecule (oxide) is stripped from the copper to reform with the Hydrogen in the Ammonia creating Water (H2O) and Nitrogen gas (N2) leaving the Copper (Cu) clean and free of Oxide.

The balanced equation is actually 2 NH3 + 3 CuO = 3 Cu + N2 + 3 H2O where 2 molecules of Ammonia combine with 3 molecules of Copper Oxide. This reaction happens very quickly but lets look at NH3 (100% Ammonia or Anhydrous Ammonia) for a moment. This material is a gas under normal atmospheric conditions and only turns to a liquid state at -27 degrees Fahrenheit or below @ sea level. That's why it makes such a great refrigerant in an enclosed system.

To use it as a cleaner it is combined with Water in a 3% or less solution to stabilize into a liquid (H2O + NH3) under normal atmospheric conditions, leaving trace amounts (1-3%) of the NH3 Ammonia molecules undiluted, which is the common ammonia used for household cleaning. Because it is a highly diluted solution, it will take longer to strip the Oxide off the Copper Penny than a higher concentration of Ammonia will say 25%), but it does work the same.

When I was cleaning antique clocks for a living, we used to use Industrial Ammonia to clean the brass components of clock workings, leaving them gleaming like 24K Gold! As a warning however; Industrial Ammonia in concentrations of 25% or higher are highly toxic, lethal and should be used with extreme caution in a controlled environment. Even spilled concentrations of as little as 3% can reach the rate of 500 ppm (considered health hazardous) at breathing height in open air in a room within 3 minutes.

I hope this takes some of the mystery out of your puzzlement.

David Faragher
- Granada Hills, California, USA


July 6, 2017

A. I started in Aeronautical School in Queens New York. I was top rated in Chemistry Major GPA 4.0+.

With combining copper with liquid ammonia, I would let it set till the solution started to turn blue. My Uncle introduced me to all lapidary jewelry. I asked about experiencing with his old pieces. I would soak the jewelry overnight. The solution became a deep Sea Blue. I pulled the jewelery out and to our surprise the jewelry came out clean after running in warm water and with a jeweler cloth. Little to no effort you had a piece that was as pretty as new. Copper chemicals were easy to come be back in the 60's, therefore I used the oldest copper coins I could find. Also I never used plastic to mix the two together. Glass, and I mean clear pyrex glass, is the best. Like a Pudding glass Grandma made Pudding in to. The solution would last in a mason jar for later use. Originator RFS "68"

Robert Sawart Jr.
RFS AND COMPANY - Ormond Beach, Florida



This public forum has 60,000 threads. If you have a question in mind which seems off topic to this thread, you might prefer to Search the Site

ADD a Q or A to THIS thread START a NEW THREADView This Week's HOT TOPICS

Disclaimer: It's not possible to diagnose a finishing problem or the hazards of an operation via these pages. All information presented is for general reference and does not represent a professional opinion nor the policy of an author's employer. The internet is largely anonymous & unvetted; some names may be fictitious and some recommendations may be deliberately harmful.

  If you need a product/service, please check these Directories:

JobshopsCapital Equip. & Install'nChemicals & Consumables Consult'g, Train'g, SoftwareEnvironmental ComplianceTesting Svcs. & Devices


©1995-2017 finishing.com     -    Privacy Policy
How Google uses data when you visit this site.