How to fuse polyethylene butt joints together?
Q. I am trying to fuse polyethylene butt joints together. So far I have only found one method that is pretty impractical for my purpose. Welding them together with plastic rod, seems to heat the poly too much and causes warpage. My question to you is, Is there anything that will bond polyethylene together. I have explored many epoxy's and glues and have had no luck. Please if you could come up with a liquid form that would do this I would really appreciate it. Thank you very much.Michael Frank
concrete - Paxton Illinois
Hi Michael !
There is NO adhesive for 'butt joining' Polyethylene (or Polypropylene, for that matter). Were someone to invent a good 'glue' for Pe they'd be an immediate billionaire!
There are two ways only of making a successful joint.
The first one is butt fusion. This requires a Teflon coated heating plate & pressure. After getting the material to the right 'fusion' temperature, one forces the two pieces together. For small diameters, this can be done by hand. For large diameters, you need a machine, ie. CHEVRON, U.S.A. amongst others makes h.d. Pe pipe up to 4 feet diameter. They use butt fusion machines to get around 100% weld strengths.
Yes, you can successfully weld them together. Firstly, cleanliness. No oil. No finger marks. Ensure that you have a compatible weld rod. You bevel the surfaces to be welded. Then you just hand weld (for larger diameters one uses a speed tip). One uses some pressure, too, to force the welding rod into situ. It's NOT like metal welding. You don't you MUSTN'T puddle the weld! Heat AND pressure only.
Welding is an art! Go and ask LARAMY, U.S.A. for their excellent little handbook which they give out with each of their welding guns. Excellent. A fully trained welder, based on tests I've organized, should hit well over 85% of tensile. A German book on welding mentioned the exceedingly rare case of a PVC welder hitting 100% BUT this I can vouch actually happened at ALCORE in Richmond Hill, Ontario back in the 60's.
Finally, hand welding of Pe is more successful if one uses a pure dry air or an air source (assuming that your welding gun doesn't have an inbuilt blower) that is NOT connected to a compressor!
I hope that this will help you. Cheers !
Handbook of Polyolefins
Working with Polyethylene
Hi Freeman... I do thank you for your time and explanation. I was afraid I would get a response like this though. But that is good that I know this now. Once again thank you for replying to my statement.Michael Frank
concrete. - Paxton Illinois
Now there is a glue that can melt Poly together and its made by 3M but the cost of it is about $140 for about 300 inches of a 1/4 inch bead. So 3M is going to be rich off of it ... well, no, because the cost right now is so high it's not worth it. Figured I would tell you that if money is no object then there ya go.Andrew William Lusson
- Cedar Falls, Iowa
3M Acrylic Structural Adhesive
Some of the subsequent discussions get a bit confusing as people recommend various 3M adhesives, because sometimes people are talking radically different adhesives (epoxy vs. urethane vs. acrylic, structural vs. non-structural), and sometimes they are discussing essentially the same adhesive where the different model numbers only reflect different cure times.
We recommend the 3M brochure "Design & Production Guide for Application success", available as a pdf at multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=66666UF6EVsSyXTtMxMVm8T2EVtQEVs6EVs6EVs6E666666--&fn=8120309%20AdhesiveNTapes_LR.pdf.
We've reprinted here the half page that explains the Epoxy Structural Adhesive model numbers:
For Michael and anyone else finding this message. In the medical field, PET a form or polyethylene, is routinely bonded. An example is in the manufacture of balloon catheters. The PET is first corona treated then bonded with cyanoacrylics. Corona treating is a high voltage arc applied to the surface. This breaks the tight molecular bonds of the material, allowing the ends of these molecules to attach to the adhesive. The bonding requires both mechanical pressure and high humidity to activate the cyanoacrylic.
Tensile strength is good, but shear is weaker. My suggestion is talking with the material vendor, the adhesive vendors and the makers of corona treating equipment.
If someone is in the design phase of a project, they may also consider this bond method to hold pieces in place, but providing a mechanical interlock (pin in a hole) to give the mechanical strength.Bob Guziak
electronics - Thousand Oaks, California
I've been researching vacuum forming of polyethylene sheet recently and this may help you some.
The melting point of high density poly is supposed to be around 130 °C (about 266 °F). The forming temperature for vacuum forming is in this range as well. If by butt welding, you mean heating and joining the edges together so that they cool into a single piece, then you probably already have the equipment at your house (assuming your seams are flat). Just about any household electric griddle with a Teflon coating can be adjusted between 200 and 400 °F. I'd just heat it up, stand my 2 pieces on the edges to be welded, wait for a bead to begin forming when I apply light pressure, then put them together and press like hell... actually, I'd probably tape the pieces together, then let them sit for 15 minutes until they are completely cooled.
Hope this helps, I plan on trying it soon with a project I'm working on.Brian Peters
- Marietta, Georgia
Guide to Vacuum Forming for the Hobbyist
Polyethylene is a thermo plastic, thermo plastic's can only be heat welded. The warping you are talking about can only be overcome by welding technics; some people would say you have to use clamps to hold the work piece at the correct angle, this is not so, the types of welding you use to weld plastic will always warp plastic. Although if you use another type of weld to overcome the previous weld, you will acquire the desired outcome.
polymer fabrications - Kalgoorlie-Boulder WA, Australia
Gen Foods Retired - Cottonwood, Arizona
3M 4693H non-structural adhesive
mrstickys.com has a product called PolyBonder--claims structural lap sheer bond of 2000 psi if proper flame treatment is performed prior to bonding. I believe that it will preform well with butt joints with flame treatment as well. I think TAP Plastics is now carrying it...they should know they sell HDPE etc.
Hope this helps.
- Sacramento, California
March 18, 2009
I have had success with bonding Polypropylene by using
3M DP420. Surface prep is really important. You need to first clean with ethanol, and then plasma treat the surface. If you do this the bond should be stronger than the plastic being used (it is in my use).
- Pleasant Gap, Pennsylvania
February 26, 2011
A. Try this link:
- American Canyon, California
Ed. note: Link is broken less than a year later, leaving us with no idea what you were trying to say, Tim :-(
Folks: these threads are read by interested readers for a long time after you post them, and the great majority of readers will read your posting after the links are broken, which is one reason we discourage links. If you post links anyway, please at least summarize your thoughts. Thanks.
December 16, 2011
Q. We had a problem with a HDPE 32" DR11 Tee one of the welds failed during the hydrotest, it presented a one inch leak. We asked a qualified technician to propose a solution and he told us to replace the whole part. Is there a reason why he couldn't repair it with a hand welding gun? did we have another solution?.
The tee transports sea water, test pressure 165 PSI, temp 75 F.
- Lima, Peru
August 12, 2012
Q. I'm trying to bond 1/2 inch PVC pipe to HD Poly., a trash can as it turns out. Am I wasting my time. The HDPE will be supporting the pipe as it will be fitted through snug holes in the trash can. The bond is to keep in place laterally.Mark Lansdell
- Baltimore, Maryland, USA