Letter 5720

Copper patina is almost black instead of green

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I am putting a green patina finish on copper tubing. My question is when I apply the solution should the copper turn very dark? The copper was cleaned with Steel Wool [link is to product info at Rockler] and washed with Muriatic Acid [link is to product info at Amazon], then rinsed off. The copper was still a bit wet when I started to apply the solution. I used a commercial patina which did produce the green patina. Unsure about very dark copper, Is this normal?

Thanks

Jeff R
- Chambersburg Pennsylvania

50% VINEGAR AND 50% BLEACH Makes a very nice patina and I also use copper tubing from the hardware store. It is best to clean tubing with Steel Wool [link is to product info at Rockler] but the patina occurs on tubing that I have done nothing to. The more you treat it with the solution the more patina. Side note this same solution works very well making tin rust.

Joel H
- Tyler, TX

Be very careful with that vinegar and bleach thing! One of the most important household safety tips--which you'll read everywhere--is never mix bleach with other household liquids (except laundry detergent which is designed for use with bleach).

Ted Mooney, P.E.  finishing.com Brick, New Jersey

Steel wool has oil in it to keep it from rusting. Make sure the metal is oil free before applying patina.

John D
- Carbondale, Illinois

I have a outdoor fire pit with a 35" copper bowl that I bought new at Target today. The copper is bright and shiny almost like a new penny. The label on the box says that the copper surface will age to a beautiful patina finish. However I don't want to wait. The copper surface appears oily which I presume slows the aging process. If I am going to try the vinegar and bleach method, How do I go about cleaning the surface of the copper before applying the vinegar and bleach patina? Any help?

Thanks,

Greg Z
Contracting/Appraisal - Richardson, Texas

I am not an expert, just learning about this antique patina thing myself, but when working on some copper salt/pepper shakers yesterday, tried Acetone [link is to product info at Rockler] to dissolve the sprayed-on plastic coating that was keeping the top bright. I rubbed it with a solvent-dampened coarse cloth, and it came off. I don't know if that would work for you, or if a diluted furniture stripper would work. Why not try some things on the bottom in a small area. Good luck! (By the way, I saw the fireplace bowl that you spoke of for sale here, and it is tempting. It is $100 Canadian here, though.)

John H
- Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Just realized that the coating may be lacquer, so lacquer thinner [link is to product info at Amazon] might be better. And, I just visited a site where a fellow sprayed on some plant fertilizer, letting it soak in cloth spread out on his copper garden ball, and it turned green. Again, good luck!

John H
- Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

You do realize Vinegar and Bleach make chlorine gas, and at 1000 ppm can literally kill you? Not to mention the damage it can do to the surrounding area.

Be VERY careful doing this...

Jim Swanson
- Charleston, South Carolina

Or better yet, don't do it at all !

The label on bleach clearly says: "DO NOT MIX WITH OTHER HOUSEHOLD CHEMICALS . . . to do so may release hazardous gases".

Ted Mooney finishing.com Brick, New Jersey

 

A strong solution of Miracle Grow & water, sprayed on copper, will turn it a beautiful green patina overnight.

Patricia Lynch
- Arlington, Virginia

I am trying to patina clean copper with ammonia and salt. I have read a few different methods of doing this and I seem to be having trouble. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Anya Rossien Bredbeck
Artist - Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts

Ammonia and Salt makes a really great blue patina on the copper. Try a buried patina - use either sawdust or non-clumping clay cat litter in a ziplock bag and dampen it with the ammonia, then add the salt. You have to use a lot of salt, about the same amount as the ammonia or even more. Make sure it is all well mixed and then bury your copper piece in the mixture. Let it sit for at least 3 days. The longer you leave it, the darker the blue color will be. 5 days makes a beautiful speckled midnight blue and black patina.

Belinda Cook
- Chicago, Illinois

Hello! I am in process of building a barnwood cabinet, with a copper sheeting over the top. I have seen these on-line with a beautiful, very rustic looking patina of red and black.
Can anyone help me to get this look? And how to keep it?
Thanks,

Deb Cushing
hobbyist - Fallon, Nevada

Hi, Deb. Those more unusual colors require more unusual chemicals. Please see our FAQ on Patinas. Good luck.

Regards,

Ted Mooney finishing.com Brick, New Jersey

Copper lighting fixture /how can we oxidize without dipping into liquids? oblong 12 light french fixture;want to oxidize to reduce bright copper color;looking for more black/brownish colour what and how is this possible to be done??
Thanks,

Esther Klein
antique/silver and artifacts - Brooklyn, New York

Just a couple of corrections to previous posts: Vinegar and bleach does NOT make chlorine gas -- bleach and ammonia do. The reason bleach bottles contain the warning not to mix with anything is that so many household cleaners contain some ammonia.

George Carlson
- Wartrace, Tennessee

Thanks for replying, George, but unfortunately your reply is wrong. Bleach is sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl). It is essentially chlorine gas dissolved in a highly alkaline watery solution. That alkalinity is what accounts for the slimy feel of bleach, and what keeps most of the chlorine gas in solution. The 'smell' of bleach is the small amount of chlorine gas that evolves even out of that alkaline solution.

As you lower the pH with any acid, the chlorine gas evolves at a faster and faster rate. Sure, just as you can survive in a room where bleach is being used to wash the floor, you can survive in a room where a little vinegar has been added to a little diluted bleach, it will just smell more strongly. Add more vinegar to less diluted bleach and you'll run out of the room coughing and wrenching. Add still more and you may not be able to run out at all.

There is way more than enough chlorine in a cup of bleach to kill you. While it's theoretically possible to limit the amount of vinegar to a level where the rate of evolution is low enough that you can still breathe, it is playing with fire.

Ted Mooney finishing.com Brick, New Jersey

My male dog has done a nice job urinating on my copper fire pit - blue green patina easy, safe, smelly but free.

That is all

Joe Hanson
- Denver, Colorado

Please help. I put the wrong cleaning solution on my brand new hammered weathered antique finish copper sink. The cleaner took off the black weathered finish and made it shiny and green. What can I do to get the antique weathered finish back?

Cathyann Wishinski
hobbyist - Bloomingburg, New York

Maybe try the egg yolk idea suggested on another thread. Close the drain, put in a few cooked egg yolks, cover the sink with Saran wrap to contain the hydrogen sulfide. If this takes you in the right direction but isn't powerful enough, then try Liver Of Sulphur [linked by editor to product info at MisterArt].

Ted Mooney finishing.com Brick, New Jersey

Ted Mooney is absolutely correct. NEVER mix anything with household bleach unless your goal is to be a future Darwin award winner.

Jeffrey Cox
- Fredericksburg Virginia

I wish to place a copper roof on the cupola on a doll house I am building. I have thin sheets of what is said to be "copper sheeting". I want it to look like an oxidized old roof with a typical greenish patina. What do you suggest I might apply to do this?

Thank you,

Bob Barnes
hobbyist - Batavia, Illinois

Hi, Bob. First you need to know what material it is. If it's very light, it's aluminum rather than copper. If it's magnetic, it's steel rather than copper. If it is copper you can try the approaches listed on this page. Good luck!

Regards,

Ted Mooney finishing.com Brick, New Jersey

We just bought a cupola with a copper roof and weathervane of copper. My husband is trying to "age" it with a solution he bought online for that purpose. He has been spraying and spraying and has achieved a really unattractive turquoise color that's flaking off. My contention is that he sprayed too much. He didn't let much time elapse between sprayings to see how the "oxidation" process would go. He says not. I can't seem to find any directions online on how to proceed with the spraying/oxidizing process. Can you give us any guidelines? Thanks so much.

Mardell Mullaly
- Huntingtown, Maryland

August 8, 2008 Hello Mardell, I think the problem you are having is not cleaning the surface well enough. When you patina copper you have to clean the surface to get to the copper. If you don't the patina reacts to the oil, oxidation, ect., and if that happens the patina will either flake off or wash off easily. Do a test, use some fine Steel Wool [link is to product info at Rockler] or pure Pumice [link is to product info at Amazon] and scrub an unseen area of the cupola. Rinse it with some distilled water, then scrub it again and rinse again with distilled water. Dry it off with a new paper towel. Then try the patina on that spot. Hopefully the patina will work, if it does, use the same process with the rest of the cupola and weathervane. If the surface feels oily, clean it with Tide Laundry powder and distilled water (not the liquid stuff). Scrub the oil off and rinse it well and make sure you get all the soap off. Dry off the surface and try the patina again. Oil on the surface is really bad for patinas, it acts as an asphaltum. Hope it works, Kendall Murakami - Albuquerque, New Mexico October 7, 2008 I do have a school project using cooper patina in a carving wood piece, I'm pretty sure will be beautiful, nice ...etc. Can somebody tell me what to do to transfer that green color to my finish wood piece, I not looking for a professional job, but just want to cover 1/4 % of the surface of this wood piece. Can you help my with steps to do it, what materials I need to used where to buy and how to apply!!!!! Thank you!!! Kenneth P. Student - Minneapolis, Minnesota December 2, 2009 How can I make an "Aladdin" copper lamp look old in just a few days? Lorena Duarte biotech student - Boston, Massachusetts