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AMS 2404, 2405 Specs & Testing

A discussion started in 2006 and continuing through 2017 . . .

(2006)

Q. I am hoping that someone can direct me to a publication, website, etc., that will show substitutions and or equivalent specs from Mil-Spec to AMS or vice versa. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

James Timoteo
machine company - Wichita, Kansas


(2006)

Electroless Plating
Mallory & Hajdu

A. You're treading on dangerous territory. While the title of the specifications might be comparable, the processes, requirements, test methodology, sampling plans, etc. are typically quite different ...

Just take EN for example: ASTM B733-04 [link by ed. to spec at TechStreet] divides electroless nickel into 5 grades according to phosphorus content; AMS2405 [link by ed. to spec at TechStreet] differentiates the electroless nickel it covers by using the term "LOW PHOS" in its title and states this as those EN's with 8% or less (this certainly isn't LOW PHOS EN as we know it today!); and the MIL spec makes no mention of phos content. Also, the MIL spec requires EN to have 100 hours of corrosion resistance while AMS2404 [link by ed. to spec at TechStreet] only requires 48 hours. So is EN per Mil-C-26074 [link by ed. to spec at TechStreet] or EN per AMS 2404 or EN per ASTM B 733 "equivalent" or "comparable" - NOT LIKELY!

I've turned your inquiry over to my Sales Engineer who will send you want you're looking for - we use an internal cheat sheet BUT we know the limitations! Tread carefully.

milt stevenson jr.
Milt Stevenson, Jr.
Syracuse, New York



To minimize searching and thrashing, and to provide multiple points of view, Finishing.com combined formerly separate threads into the single dialog you are now viewing. Please forgive any resultant repetition.



Help - need info on AMS 2433B spec

(2006)

Q. I have a callout for AMS 2433B Type 2 electroless nickel. I don't have the spec. Can someone help me? I need to know what the type 2 refers to - thickness, phos content, heat treatment?

Thanks

Stephen Rohrbacher
plating co., - Lowell, Massachusetts


(2006)

Electroless Nickel Plating
Wolfgang Riedel

A. My suggestion is NO QUOTE! AMS2433 [link by ed. to spec at TechStreet] is NOT electroless nickel as most platers know it. It calls specifically for nickel-boron-THALLIUM which is a far cry from the conventional nickel phosphorus electroless nickels as called out in AMS2404 [link by ed. to spec at TechStreet] and AMS2405 [link by ed. to spec at TechStreet]. Straight nickel-boron is covered by AMS 2399. Most companies won't touch thallium bearing solutions - check out the health concerns associated.... From one websource: "Exposure to high levels of thallium can result in harmful health effects. Studies in people who ingested large amounts of thallium over a short time have reported vomiting, diarrhea, temporary hair loss, and effects on the nervous system, lungs, heart, liver, and kidneys. It has caused death. A study on workers exposed on the job over several years reported nervous system effects, such as numbness of fingers and toes, from breathing thallium."

milt stevenson jr.
Milt Stevenson, Jr.
Syracuse, New York


(2006)

A. Another letter here, 34681, says that although Type 1 contains thallium, Type 2 doesn't, Milt. While we should all work from actual copies of the spec, I don't have one and am not going to buy one for a theoretical discussion :-(

Maybe someone who is looking at it can advise us on that.

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey


(2006)

A. Hello Stephen!

AMS 2433C is the current revision, and it says Type 1 is Nickel Thallium Boron, while Type 2 is Nickel Boron. N-T-B has 2.5 to 5.0% Boron with 2.5 to 6.0% Thallium. The Nickel Boron is 2.5 to 8.5% Boron.

There isn't a change bar next to these paragraphs, so I believe that the B revision says the same thing.

lee gearhart
Lee Gearhart
metallurgist




AMS-C-26074 vs AMS2404

March 1, 2011

Q. What is the difference between AMS-C-26074 vs AMS2404? They are both for Electroless nickel.

David Tobias
product designer - New York, New York


March 4, 2011

A. David,

You are going to have to bite the bullet and buy the specifications. Both are produces by SAE and are commercially owned specifications.

It will also do you good to read and compare the specifications, you'll learn so much more.

Brian Terry
aerospace - Yeovil, Somerset, United Kingdom



Testing electroless nickel plated parts

Electroless Copper and Nickel-Phosphorous Plating

August 9, 2010

Q. I'm processing my 430F SS metal with the following formula

1.- Electropolish ASTM B912-02

2.- Chemical Passivation Treatments for Stainless Steel Parts ASTM A967-05

Test:
Should be Practice D Copper Sulfate Test. (Page 4)
Treatments in Nitric Acid Solutions.
Nitric 1 Solution should be used per X1.1 page 6.

3.- AMS2404: Plating, Electroless Nickel

Class 2, Thermal treatment at 450 °F (232 °C) or above to harden the deposit (Page 4)
Thickness of nickel should be 0.0015 inch (0.038 mm) for iron-based alloys.

Do you know what will be the test for the Electroless nickel plated parts?

Carlos Villanueva
Project & Design Engineer - Chihuahua, Mexico


August 20, 2010

A. The spec you refer to has all the details in it.

Jeroen Visser
- Helmond, Netherlands


August 23, 2010

A. Carlos, hi.
My old copy of AMS 2404C (Electroless Nickel Plating) states that (4.2) there are 3 classifications of tests :

4.2.1 Acceptance Tests
4.2.2 Periodic Tests
4.2.3 Preproduction Tests

Cheah Sin Kooi
- Penang, Malaysia



October 10, 2016

Q. I have a requirement to electroless nickel plate a part per AMS2404 class 2.
The hardness after heat treatment for class 2 shall be no lower than 800HK100 (773HV100)
I have a question on the hardness test force per ASTM E384 [link by ed. to spec at TechStreet]. Should the force be 100 gf instead or 100 Kgf?

Would appreciate your help!

Henry Deardurff
- Monroe, Ohio


October 25, 2016

A. Henry,
I would contact ASTM about that. They should be able to find the person to tell you if the standard should be followed as written or if you've discovered a typographical error.

Ray Kremer
Stellar Solutions, Inc.

McHenry, Illinois


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