|
| |
Letter 29294
Which is better: 18/8 or 18/10 stainless
steel?
|
++++
Which metal is more durable: 18/10 or 18/8 stainless
steel? I am considering purchasing some flatware that is
18/8 stainless, and wonder how strong it will be.
Thanks,
H Dawson
homemaker - Dallas, TX, USA
++++
Previously (November 2000) on another Internet forum:
Question
I would like to know about stainless steel , specifically
which is stronger and will last longer 18/10 or 18/8. which
would make a heavier weight flatware ? I cant find these
answers anywhere. thank you so much.
|
|
|
Answer
Hello Shelly! Let me start with a few basics, OK? The 18/8 and 18/10
designations are older terms, and refer to the amount of chromium and
nickel alloyed with the iron, to comprise the stainless steel. The
18/8 name has been pretty much replaced, in the States at least, by
several other designations. 301 stainless steel has 16-18% Cr, and
6-8% Ni 302 stainless steel has 17-19% Cr, and 8-10% Ni 304 stainless
steel has 18-20% Cr, and 8-10.5% Ni That may explain your difficulty
in finding information on these alloys. Similarly, 18/10 is usually
referred to as 316 stainless steel, with 16-18% Cr, 10-14% Ni, and
also 2-3% molybdenum, which greatly increases the resistance to
pitting corrosion in seawater. Good stuff, that moly.
Now the mechanical properties these 300 series stainless steels
are all the same! In the annealed condition, they are all listed at
75 ksi tensile strength, 30 ksi yield strength. The slight difference
in Cr and Ni isn't enough to cause a difference in the strength by
themselves. These alloys can be made harder, however, by cold
working, i.e. rolling or drawing through a die or extruding through a
die or some other such process which will deform the metal, while it
is at most a few hundred degrees F. Here, too, the mechanical
properties are the same: half-hard stock, for example, has 150 ksi
tensile, 110 ksi yield strength, no matter if it is 301, 302, 304,
316, etc.
The difference is in the corrosion resistance (which I assume
you're not interested in, since all will be fine for flatware) and in
the ductility. A lower alloyed 301 has more ductility when work
hardened than the higher alloyed 316. So after you stamp out your
quarter hard sheet into forks, you can bend one of the tines more
often, or farther, if it is of 301 rather than if it is made of 304
or 316, before it will crack. The weight of the flatware will depend
on geometry, since the densities of the stainless steel grades are
identical, for practical purposes. Iron, chromium, and nickel all
weigh about the same. A splendid source of information on stainless
steels is the Nickel Development Institute, at www.nidi.org, which
offers a lot of FREE literature they are glad to send. And please
don't hesitate to ask here again! (Gosh, I hope I answered your
question in all this rambling!) Take care!

Lee Gearhart
- East Aurora, NY
February 8, 2006
Very informative answer. Now I'm wondering about 18/0. I've seen a
number of flatware sets listed as such. Does the 0 indicate lower
quality, less corrosion protection, what not?
Amanda G [name deleted for privacy due to age of
posting]
- Jetmore, KS, USA
December 13, 2006
- 18/0 would mean 18 percent chromium and 0 percent nickel
- 18/8 indicates 18 percent chromium & 8 percent nickel
- 18/10 indicates 18 percent chromium & 10 percent nickel.
Because nickel costs about $17 per pound, flatware which contains
none would be less expensive than flatware which contains 8 or 10
percent nickel.
While 18/0 is not necessarily unsatisfactory, it is not considered
as corrosion resistant.
|
|

Ted Mooney, P.E.
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey
|
December 12, 2006
Is any grade better for one's health than another? I'm
particularly interested in stainless steel cooking ware.
Clarissa D [name deleted for privacy due to age of
posting]
Social Worker - New Mexico, USA
January 29, 2007
Now that I understand about 18/8 and 18/10 - what about flatware
that doesn't bend?
Laurie B [name deleted for privacy due to age of
posting]
- Wellsville, Utah, USA
Clarissa, sorry I have no answer except that all of these
stainless steels are considered safe.
Laurie,
That has much more to do with the dimensions (and consequently the
weight) than the type of material. In this context the resistance to
permanent bending is proportional to the second power of the
thickness. As a slight simplification, flatware that is 40 percent
thicker will be 40 percent heavier and twice as strong. So flatware,
like produce, should be "heavy in the hand".
 Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey
|
February 1, 2007
Is it true that type 304 surgical stainless steel
cookware will react on food while 316L will not? They said
this kind of stainless steel (316L) is what surgeons use for
hip, knee replacement and others.
I attended a cookware demonstration where they boiled
water on each different cookware (aluminum, copper,
stainless steel and 316L stainless steel) and put a teaspoon
of baking soda and all the cookware has a yucky taste
including the regular stainless steel except for the 316L,
no reaction at all, why is that?
I've been surfing the internet, couldn't find the answer.
Gabriel D [name deleted for privacy due to
age of posting]
amateur - Dallas, Texas
Gabriel,
The demo you saw was apparently sponsored by the
manufacturer of 316L stainless steel, and designed to show
it in the best light. Still, yes, 316L is more corrosion
resistant than the other stainless steels mentioned on this
page.
 Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey
February 12, 2007
I also have the same question. A lot of waterless
cookwares are using 304 stainless steel and only SaladMaster
is using 316L. Is 316L really a lot better than 304? I have
heard that 304 has pores when heat up, but not 316L. Is it
true?
Elena Au
- Irvine, CA, US
I somwhat doubt the "pores" theory, Elena, but 316L
is a very very good grade of stainless steel. It means type
316 (sometimes called 18/10) "L"ow carbon.
 Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey
|
|
|
February 27, 2007
I was recently in India and a lot of the factories are using 14/1
and 14/04 stainless instead of 18/10. The price is reduced and the
factories are saying that products manufactured from 14/1 and 14/04
pass all tests for corrosion and rust.
I would like to know more about this type of stainless steel, the
strength and what defects can we expect to encounter if we use this
material to manufacture giftware products.
Thanks
Diane T. Stevens
- Eatontown, NJ, USA
March 20, 2007
I have found a number of third-party sources that verify the
superiority of 316 steel, versus lower grades of stainless steel on
the market such as 304 and 18/8.
Here is some very interesting data on 316 steel, according to the
Sandmeyer Steel Company:
http://www.sandmeyersteel.com/316-316L.html
Here is a quote from this page:
316 steel is used in the "manufacture and handling of certain food
and pharmaceutical products where the molybdenum-containing stainless
steels are often required in order to minimize metallic
contamination."
Here is a website where I found that Pharmaceutical companies use 316
steel for purposes of high purity in their products:
http://www.arcmachines.com/appPages/weldspec02.html
Here is a quote from this page:
"The Baseline series of PHARMACEUTICAL ENGINEERING GUIDES was
developed by ISPE in cooperation with the FDA to establish a baseline
approach to new and renovated facility design, construction
commissioning and qualification. . . . discusses material selection
for piping systems and recommends type 316L as the preferred steel
for a High Purity Water generation and distribution system. "
I also have a power-point presentation which includes data from
multiple Allegheny Ludlum metallurgical studies, and demonstrates the
differences between 304 steel and 316 steel.
Joseph Matthew Gleason
- Anna, Texas, USA
March 30, 2007
My son struggles with metal toxins, and I am at a loss as to which
brand of flatware would be the least toxin for him. He is now in a
treatment program to detoxify his body of metal toxins, and I don't
want to put toxins back into his system. I have read this and that
about 316 steel etc, but I am still unsure as to what flatware to
get. Please help by sharing a brand(s)of non-toxin quality flatware.
Thanks so much!
Deborah Jan Evgenikos
- Placerville, California, USA
April 10, 2007
In answer To:
"My son struggles with metal toxins . . ."
Sterling silver would be your best choice,as there is no documented
cases of allergies or toxic effects by silver. You may not be able to
use a commercial polish to keep it clean looking.
Russ Goodrich
- Santa Clara, Ca, USA
Ed. note: If unable to use commercial silver polish, then see
letter 4785 for removing
tarnish from silver with baking soda.
July 12, 2007
Thank you for all the fine information. This is the best and most
informative on a subject of some confusion to those of us who are
non-engineer/non-metalurgist types out here.
Kim Bentz
- Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Ed. note: Thank you so much for the kind words, Kim.
July 17, 2007
I have a new set of flatware that is marked "stainless china". Can
you tell me about this flatware and possibly why it tarnishes every
time I put it in the dishwasher?? Now my other flatware and utensils
are tarnishing too. I've had the dishwasher checked and cleaned it
out with vinegar washes several times. Please help!
Linda Knepp
housewife - State College, PA
July 26, 2007
The "Stainless China" flatware is tarnishing each time you put it
in the dishwasher because it was MADE in China (it's not "china" in
the ceramic-plate sense). The stainless indication means that it has
a higher level of chromium than standard steel, but most likely a low
(if any) nickel content. You want to buy something that says 18/10 or
18/8 right on the handle.
Eric
Eric Larson
- Simi Valley, CA
September 17, 2007
re:
"Sterling silver would be your best choice,as there is no
documented cases of allergies or toxic effects by silver. You may not
be able to use a commercial polish to keep it clean looking".
Can anyone tell me why there is no documented cases of allergies to
this, when there is apparently nickel in sterling or most sterlings?
I may have misunderstood though. Just wondering as I have a bad
allergy to nickel.Seems the only cookware I do not have a reaction to
is a 316L type.What should I use for flatware?
Linda Fischer
- Pt Alberni, B.C., Canada
September 19, 2007
I don't think that that is accurate, Linda. The usual alloying
material in sterling silver is copper, and silverplate or silver
would probably be the least allergenic.
 Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey
December 27, 2007
Hi. I just came across a 21/0 stainless steel flatware which I am
considering purchasing. According to what I've learned here, this
signifies 21 percent chromium and 0 percent nickel. Is this better or
worse, lighter or heavier than 18/10 stainless steel flatware?
Thanks!
Beatrice Finkelstein
none - Chicago, IL, USA
January 1, 2008
As I read through all the answers I got more confused! Which is
the better flatware? Is more nickel better? heavier? pricier? I need
high quality, pit and corrosion resistant, heavy flatware in my hand.
What is the very best? Which should I buy if price is not a
consideration only quality,durability and beautiful finish are the
criteria? Help! I hate cheap flatware so much I can't eat with it, it
literally hurts my hand!
Gail Robinson
buyer - Willimantic, CT, USA
January 11, 2008
|
Yes, Gail, more nickel is better and more expensive. 18/8
or 18/10 stainless steel is best. But I don't think you can
really select flatware on this basis, because there is more
to the process of manufacturing good stainless steel than
just the alloy composition. I think you can go only by the
reputation of the maker and their guarantees.
Although I am a strong proponent of "Buy American", I
don't know of any flatware companies that guarantee that
their flatware is made in the USA. It's almost all made in
China today, and I have no confidence in it or the companies
selling it. If anybody knows of American-made place service,
please pipe in.
I have no personal experience with Japanese flatware, but
at least Japanese companies do not seem to practice
"meatball whoring" (letting 3rd parties use their
logo/meatball in exchange for money) as so many American
companies do today.
Based on what I can see, and their lifetime guarantee and
customer reviews, my personal guess as to the best flatware
you can buy today is Yamazaki. If anyone has personal
experience with it, please chime in; meanwhile we've linked
to reviews on Amazon where all three customers rated it
"5-star".
 Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey
|
|
|
|
January 21, 2008
I'm looking at a cookware set by Healthy Lifestyles
Cookware. They use T304 19/9 surgical stainless steel. Is
this set any better in composition than any other set?
Steve Ebling
Hobbyist - Pewaukee, WI, USA
January 31, 2008
I am also curious about the 21/0 stainless steel flatware
I see advertized. Is anyone able to offer an explanation on
the durability or quality of 21/0?
Jacque Perry
- Punxsutawney, PA, USA
March 8, 2008
If you read between the lines, the key factor in the
ratings is the anount of Nickel in the item. The Nickel is
the metal that reducse the rust and oitting of the base
metal, being Stainless Steel. Stainless Steel is a combined
meatl of base steel, nickel, chromium, titanium and others.
The SS rating also indicates a hardness, as 21 will be
harder and stronger than 14, though less flexible, meaning
it should lase longer in use. The second number in the
equation for flatware as in 18/10, being the 10, indicates
the percentage of nickel being used. Most common ratings as
in 18/8 - 18/10 are the basic and accepted range for
flatware. A 21/0 therefore is a strong SS with minimal
nickel content. Most of these utensils have been polished.
With minimum nickel content, the polish will not hold up
very long and will lend itself to staining long term.
Dell Wood
- Windsor, Ontario
|
|
|
April 13, 2008
i would like to know if lead is ever used in making flatware. I am
concerned because of China's deceptive use of lead in products.
Barbara McBroom
- Hillside , IL USA
April 14, 2008
Hi, Barbara. I can't see any reason a manufacturer would put lead
into a stainless steel product. However, if you were talking silver
plated flatware, there probably are some advantages to making it from
leaded brass.
That doesn't mean I personally believe there is much chance of
finding lead in a piece of silverplate, but I'm not about to make
such a promise on behalf of a Chinese manufacturer.
Regards,
|
|

Ted Mooney, P.E.
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey
|
May 5, 2008
This is very helpful and informative reading. Thanks everyone. I
am replacing my Reed & Barton 18/10 flatware after 11 years due
to staining and pitting. Nothing last forever. And it look as though
the standard is still 18/10 (316). Considering Oneida or Yamazaki...
Maureen Moylan
- Northridge, CA, USA
May 20, 2008
In answer To:
"My son struggles with metal toxins . . ."
The safest metal for your son to use would be titanium.
Titanium forms an oxide layer that is extremely inert and
non-reactive. This is the reason titanium is one of the most commonly
used metals for surgical implants.
Camping stores (such as REI) sell titanium forks and spoons.
Keith Savage
- Austin, TX, USA
September 10, 2008
I read all the questions and answers and they are very
informative. However, I did not see anything about stainless steel
cookware that's 18/30 grade. What would this mean?
Maria Chua
Employee - Manila, Philippines
October 18, 2008
1810 stainless cookwear set? Would this be a good deal for
cooking? Trying to buy a good pan set for my sons of college cooking.
I would prefer something that would not burn easily. I personally
have Club cook wear and now it is all coated. have bought him a few
pieces at resale stores but
Fran Seibel
none - Chicago, IL
October 23, 2008
Thanks for the interesting discussion. I want to buy a steam
cleaner, and have been looking at different models that have
stainless steel boilers. Most of the boilers are 18/10 steel, but one
somewhat less expensive one is made of 12/10 steel. If this means the
amount of chromium is lower in the steel, will the boiler be less
durable over time?
Thanks,
Janine Polk
- Eau Claire, WI, United States
October 27, 2008
Hi, Janine. I've never heard of type 1210 stainless steel, and a
quick check of google didn't reveal any such thing either. Are you
sure the "1210" isn't simply a model number as opposed to a type of
stainless steel?
Regards,
 Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey
October 29, 2008
Can you tell me if there is any aluminum in 18/8 stainless?
Thank you,
bjh
Barbara Hammar
none - Corvallis, OR USA
October , 2008
Hi, Barbara. No, there is no aluminum in 18/8 stainless.
Regards,
 Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey
November 1, 2008
No, the machine is always listed as having a 12/10 stainless
boiler. It is the Unilux 3000--here are a couple links for it. In the
second link check the comparison chart a little ways down the page.
www.allbrands.com/products/abp13897.html?ovchn=SPRI&ovcpn=Froogle&ovcrn=Froogle&ovtac=CMP#
www.smart-cleaning-solutions.com/site/1426224/page/825600
Actually, in the bottom chart (steam cleaners with extractors) I
see there are several models with 12/10 boilers also.
Is this just a mistake, and they actually all have 18/10 stainless
boilers?
Janine Polk
- Eau Claire, WI, United
States
November 1, 2008
Hi, Janine. Remember that catalogs are written not by
metallurgists but by sales & marketing people, and that errors
creep into everything. But in this particular case it says the
boilers are made of type 304 stainless steel (which is an 18/8
stainless steel); I believe they are trying to say that the thickness
of the steel is 12 and 10 gauge (maybe 12 gauge cylindrical shell and
10 gauge top and bottom plate/bell). One reason I believe this is
that the heavier gauges seem to be specified on the higher pressure
models.
Regards,
 Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey
November 16, 2008
OK, back to the original question – what grade of stainless steel
should I use for cooking utensils?
I work for a company that fabricates carbon steel and stainless steel
piping systems for food processing plants, water treatment plants and
industrial users. My job is to help with selecting the best (most
cost-effective) materials for our customer's specific
applications.
18-8 stainless steel – now most often referred to as 304 or UNS
S30400. – Good, general purpose stainless steel. Used for some
drinking water plants, petrochemical plants, lots of structural uses.
If you want to make transit bus handrails, use 304. It's resistant to
most chemicals, and won't pit or corrode from people's sweaty hands.
Good for cooking utensils, but not as goods as 316.
18-10 stainless steel - now most often referred to as 302 or UNS
S30200. About the same for food use as 18-8. Lots of good,
inexpensive cookware is made with this alloy.
18-10MO - now most often referred to as 316 or UNS S31600. This is
the alloy of choice for food processing equipment and applications
requiring excellent corrosion resistance to most chemicals. 316 has
18% chrome, 10% nickel and 3% molybdenum. The molybdenum has a major
effect on resisting acidic and chloride corrosion. Lots of foods are
acidic – tomato sauce is one that will pit 304 but not 316. Just
about everything you cook has salt in it, and salt (especially sea
salt) has high chloride levels.
However, most if this is irrelevant. Unless you're running a meat
packing plant next to the ocean (and they all use 316), any of these
grades of stainless will work just fine.
How to destroy stainless steel cookware:
> Use with plain steel items. In our plant, we carefully segregate
stainless steel from plain carbon steel. All of our shelves are
coated with plastic so the stainless steel never touches carbon
steel. Having both types of steel in contact may cause the stainless
steel to develop surface rust. Using stainless steel spatulas on cast
iron frypans may cause rust marks to develop on the spatula. Don't
use plain steel wool to clean your stainless steel pots – use a
ScotchBrite pad or stainless steel wool.
> Let them soak for hours. Leaving your spaghetti sauce pot in the
sink full of tomato-ey water is the perfect way to start pitting.
Stagnant acidic water is the worst thing you can do. When we design
tanks for food processing plants, we take special care to make sure
the tanks can completely drain and there are no crevices to collect
stagnant water.
Bottom line, any good-quality 18-8, 18-10, 302, 304 or 316 stainless
cooking utensils will be head and shoulders beyond most of the other
available materials. Teflon-coated pots chip and flake, glass breaks
and discolours, copper tarnishes and often contains lead, strong
detergents dissolve aluminum.
As for the SaladMaster demo, it's a trick. When the nice SaladMaster
salespeople boil water in your pots and pans, you're comparing the
results against the brand new, never-been-used SaladMaster pots they
brought with and unwrapped in front of you. Your pots and pans have
millions of microscopic surface cracks that may trap equally
microscopic food particles. That's what you taste – the boiling water
and baking soda leaches out some of the food particles, causing the
yucky taste. The brand new SaladMaster pots have never been used, so
no food in THEIR microscopic cracks, so no taste.
Sheldon Jaffe
- Langley, B.C., Canada
Dear Reader, please --
- Answer or follow-up on this
subject (in non-commercial
fashion).
-
- Post a new
question or inquiry on a
different subject.
-
 |