HOW TO RECOVER PLATINUM FROM CATALYTIC CONVERTERS, page 2
I am new to scrap metal. I want to get the metal out of these items. Does anybody know a melt down place to retrieve these metals? I want to make a living doing scrap metal. Vicky in Los AngelesVictoria Blanchard
hobbyist - Los Angeles, California
The carbochlorination behavior of scrapped honeycomb-type automobile catalysts was investigated using a chlorine and carbon monoxide gas mixture to fully extract platinum and rhodium in the catalysts. The recoveries of platinum, rhodium, and base metals are monitored by ICP-AES analyses. Upflow type of fixed-bed carbochlorination experiments were performed between 250 and 700 C. The effects of flow rate, time, and partial pressures of chlorine and carbon monoxide were also determined. After optimization of these parameters, the recoveries of about 95.9% of platinum and 92.9% of rhodium were obtained at 550 C. The recovered condensate was contaminated by various base metal chlorides. The chlorides generated from the base metals could be minimized by decreasing the flow rate of the gas mixture without any deterioration of PGM recoveries, but at the expense of the volatility. The carbochlorination of scrapped automobile catalysts could be an efficient way for the profitable recovery of platinum and rhodium chlorinated compounds at comparatively low temperatures. sorry I can't find the creditsBrian McKee
- Buffalo, New York
January 26, 2008
I agree with most of the comments here. The process is not one that everyone should be trying. It is much easier to just find someone who is doing it all the time. There are a few good companies that would be happy to buy all the CCs you can get them.
If you want to try something try to recover gold. It is plenty dangerous enough for the thrill seekers and you are much more likely to have a good outcome. After you have done a few hundred pounds of gold then you can move up to this.
I should mention scale is very important when it comes to profit margins on both of these processes.
- Princeton, Texas
January 29, 2008
Q. Recovery of metals from cats is difficult! Is it possible to recondition the cat ready for re installation, e.g., Vacuum baking to remove volatiles followed by baking in air to burn off carbon?Mickey Louvel
chemist - Hampshire, U.K.
February 10, 2008
Here you will find several ways to extract the metals. And for everyone out there who enjoys censoring information to the masses, tisk tisk.
- Mobile, Alabama
February 10, 2008
Have you seen anyone censoring anything, Adam?
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Brick, New Jersey
February 11, 2008
About 4 years ago I was traveling along the highway and a catalytic converter dislodged it's self from the vehicle in front of me. I didn't have time to get out of it's way and ran over it at 110 km/h(70 MPH). I stopped to check the damage and remove the converter and tailpipe from the road. The replacement bumper and paintwork cost me $780.00. I burnt my hands dragging the thing from the road. I decided to take my leather jacket off and break the red hot pipe from the converter, so I too could own some PLATINUM. The sole of my shoe and my jacket were destroyed in this process, but I persevered and finally broke the catalytic converter off. I placed it in the truck of my vehicle and raced it home. I did the first aid on my hands, cried over the stuffed jacket & shoe and proceeded to take to the thing with my oxy-acetylene cutter. To my surprise, it was just an old muffler! What a day! Enjoy your converter people...PJCPeter Carey
- Perth, Western Australia
February 11, 2008
I wonder where all these people are getting ALL these cats. I wonder because somebody just hacked mine off my Jeep with a Sawsall. Or is it just a burning curiosity? Maybe we should have some legal authority monitoring of this thread, eh? And no, having some knowledge of it, you do not want to refine the tiny bit of metal in each without a lab behind you. It's dangerous plus you'll lose money.James Monroe
- San Francisco, California
February 19, 2008
Those of you wanting more for your converters are in a jam. Prices are based on types, quantity, volume, and remember everyone has to make a profit or they would be out of business.Cindy Reynolds
- Prairie Du Chien, Wisconsin
March 11, 2008
How do I know if my converter cartridge has any material left in it? I have access to cartridges which have been removed from converters. How do I know if there is any precious metals left in them.Doug Dugan
hobbyist - Springfield, Ohio
March 16, 2008
The cat's are disappearing here in Minn..so they have just passed a law that the purchaser must get the id of the seller which helps determine if a Jeep cat was cut off and a Jeep cat was sold the next day they can find you..in a perfect world...I know there are ways around but at least we are trying.. Thanks and good luck all.Kurt Crosby
- Kilkenny, Minnesota
March 19, 2008
I own a salvage company, I have no interest in recovering the platinum. I just want to sell the cat. So can some one give me a price list, how much money I will receive for which model? I don't want to give 50 and get 30.James Wilson
- Dalton, Georgia
April 24, 2008
I too used to think like most of you until I talked to a gentleman who owns a bronze sculpture foundry. I in turn found out the secret. A Crucible and crucible furnace is all you need along with some
[linked by editor to product info] and silica sand. You can find the plans for a furnace online easily. Easy to assemble and use. Platinum and Palladium are each different weights and one has a higher melting point than the other so when cooling down they tend to separate somewhat. When you pour the mold it will cool and the slag can be removed with a small hammer. and then you have almost pure platinum and palladium.
Do some research it is not that hard to search this stuff. The reason most people don't do it is they are either dreamers or just too stupid or flat out too lazy to try when they find out what it takes. The average cc contains around (if all used up) about a 1/4 oz. One that came off of a [certain model] that had been wrecked before it got used almost new produces close to 3 oz. Don't let the buyers of cc's lie and say they don't hardly get much more from you on them from their buyers. They make a lot and the guys who melt them make a killing. Do your research if you want to make money. It is doable and should be done by anyone with half a brain!
- Purcell, Oklahoma
The "low" price for platinum today was $1951/oz., the low price for palladium was $432/oz. So if we assume the car maker uses half palladium and half platinum it would cost them $3575 to charge a converter? Some convertors are worth more than others, but something doesn't add up, Chuck.
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Brick, New Jersey
April 26, 2008
The new converters that they sell are not like the ones that come on the new car. They use a pgm that is not as high as platinum or pall. These are after market. They don't care if it costs them 3 grand to produce one for the new car because they will add that to the new car price. Just an example: before the cc came out on new cars the value of a car was in the mid thousand dollar range. Like in the 70's a new car (not a Cadillac mind you) but a regular car was around 7,000 dollars.
When the cc was added because of emissions control cars started becoming 10 to 12000 dollars. This fit with the plan and now it will cost 18,000 and up. They use the price of the car to offset the cc that has the platinum inside. the new cats that you get are either reconditioned or made of cheap stuff. If I buy one that came off of a new car it will yield way more than that of a knock off. Also with a lot of states like here that require an inspection sticker no more, They can put less of the valuable components into them for sale in these states and still be in compliance. To sum it all up if you buy for 100.00 you have to make a profit. If you don't you are just spinning your wheels. I just smelted an '89 and produced 1/3 oz of platinum on a dead one. It is there and I make a lot on it every weekend. I average 2 to 3,000.00 every weekend on cc's. I also extract gold from plated cosmetic jewelry and have a good time doing it in my spare time. If people would take the time to do it right they would make a lot of extra money for themselves. You just have to be safe doing it so you don't hurt your self in the process.
- Purcell, Oklahoma
April 29, 2008
How much precious metal is in 60 grams of catalytic converter flakes? Hi someone please help me with these questions:
interested in getting involved - San Francisco, California
April 25, 2008
Hi, I recently inherited a mini junk yard, I have been selling the vehicles off one by one, some for scrap at $90 to $100 each. I'd like to know: are the cars/trucks with the catalytic converters intact worth more? I'm I being ripped off? Yesterday I found approx. ten converters in a shed, would it be worth it to purchase a Crucible furnace and extract the platinum/palladium myself? It seems to me that the older and heavier ones would be more valuable. I'm I right in my assumption? Thanks for any help you can give me.Kathie Meli
junk yard owner - Tooele, Utah
April 30, 2008
Reflux the honeycomb in aqua regia (HCl, HNO3), strain the resulting solution and dispose of the ceramic. treat with Ammonium chloride. evaporate, wash with HCl, dry and heat to 500 C to remove impurities.Steve Shaw
- Honeoye Falls, New York
May 12, 2008
I have 6 or so cars that I have been dragging my feet about getting rid of- with the recent out-break of thefts, I think I should remove and scrap my converters before calling the junk dealer and just giving the cars away. How do I or the recycler now the value of each? Surely they do not take them apart on the spot, do they? Or, do they just weigh them and give you a set price- regardless? Just wondering if it will be worth my while to jack up and climb under and cut off the converters. Also, is there other parts that might be worth my while to scrap, like the starters & alternators? I know they have the copper windings inside. I also know they pay a lot less for 'dirty' metal as I scraped some aluminum window frames a few years ago and was paid a lot less for the ones that had screws and other metal still attached. I am currently in between jobs and could use the money to get me through.Carol Stevens
- Olalla, Washington
June 13, 2008
Well I am sure we are all tired of hearing the same questions over and over again and that is "HOW". Well, stop asking the how and just ask what's the best way to make the most money you can. That part is soooo simple anyone can do it. First of all get a 55 gallon barrel and then start collecting converters. Punch a hole in the converters and the beads will usually fall out. You will notice there are different colored beads, the dark ones are the trash and the other lighter colored ones are the metals you're looking for. Now I am no rocket scientist but it sure don't take one to fill up that 55 gallon barrel and have it shipped to a refiner in Cali. A barrel full is worth about 20,000 USD, so what's your choice? I for one will stick to watching "How Its Made" on the Discovery channel and learn from the Pro's on how to safely recycle converters. And by the way if you're still wanting to try it all yourselves, then you will need hydrochloric acid, muriatic acid so you can mix them in the right amounts to make the acid that is needed to extract the metals. I won't go into more detail than that, you can go find what your looking for on the Discovery network, I am sure they will have a re-run there.Dale R
June 17, 2008
"And by the way if you're still wanting to try it all yourselves, then you will need hydrochloric acid, muriatic acid so you can mix them in the right amounts to make the acid that is needed to extract the metals. I won't go into more detail than that, you can go find what you're looking for on the Discovery network, I am sure they will have a re-run there."
See it is that one lil sentence that is a bunch of bull, "I wont go into more detail than that." why in the heck can't you people share what you know? instead you have to be all secretive and say oh it's dangerous and you need all these poisonous chemicals. Why? just to try to discourage us because you don't want us possibly taking your profit if were in your area. all metal will melt at some point. so why not just melt it out (after all you probably do) because its easier. you tell us about chemicals to thwart us from trying when you people are probably just tossing them into a furnace and pouring brick after brick.
- Norfolk, Virginia
- Cory from Tulsa explained in detail how the precious metals can be recovered.
- Then Brian from Buffalo did the same.
- Then Adam from Mobile pointed you to a patent describing some methods.
- Then Chuck from Purcell, OK explained an alternate way to do it by melting.
- Dale from Texas suggested collecting the beads in barrels as the best place to position yourself in the recovery chain to make money simply and easily, but went on to name a TV program if you want to go further.
- We've named books, available from any library, that will explain all.
But instead of thanking anyone for their help, you demand that someone explain in one paragraph how people of unknown skill and experience, perhaps without basic chemistry knowledge, can perform a precious metal refining process, "pouring brick after brick" of precious metal. It's just ridiculous.
Please study, and then ask any detailed question you wish and people will probably be delighted to answer it.
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Brick, New Jersey
June 27, 2008
OH, GOOD GRIEF! Y'KNOW, TED....YOU ALWAYS HAVE SUCH A RESERVED CONTROL WITH YOUR RESPONSES TO THESE POSTS AND I DO ADMIRE YOU FOR THAT. BELIEVE ME...I UNDERSTAND JUST HOW OFTEN YOU MUST BITE YOUR LIP AND GIVE A SIGNIFICANT PAUSE TO REFLECT ON THE ABSURDITIES SOME OF THESE POSTERS KEY-OUT. ONE HAS TO WONDER IF THEY ARE JOKING WITH US OR (even worse) ARE ACTUALLY SERIOUS ABOUT SOME OF THEIR FANTASTIC BELIEFS AND STATEMENTS. I DEAL WITH VARIOUS SEGMENTS OF THE PGM RECYCLING INDUSTRY ON A DAILY (and nightly) BASIS AND EVERY TIME I THINK THAT I'VE HEARD IT ALL..AND BEFORE MY SIDE STOPS HURTING FROM UNCONTROLLED LAUGHTER...I HEAR SOMETHING EVEN FUNNIER. YEAH...I GET A REGULAR DOSE OF COMMENTS FROM INDIVIDUALS CLAIMING THAT THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME SORT OF CONSPIRACY WITH REGARD TO ACTUAL RETRIEVABLE PGM LOADS FROM VARIOUS AUTO CATALYSTS AND INDUSTRIAL SUCCENTS. SO MANY OF THEM DO BELIEVE THAT WE MUST BE SALVAGING MANY, MANY TIMES THE ACTUAL AMOUNTS OF THOSE PRECIOUS METALS THAT EXIST IN THE SPENT CATALYSTS.
AND THEY ALSO BELIEVE THAT THE PROCESS IS SIMPLE AND COSTS VERY LITTLE TO DO IT. TED, I SWEAR, IN ANY MONTH, I COULD GATHER ENOUGH STORY MATERIAL TO MAKE A VERY BIZARRE COMEDY. I SUPPOSE THAT I WOULD NEED TO WRITE-IN A FEW CHASE SCENES AND OTHER HI-TENSION SUBJECT MATTER TO HOLD GENERAL AUDIENCE INTERESTS. BUT, I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD WANT TO INCLUDE THE PERSONAL REALITY OF ME WAKING UP IN A COLD-CLAMMY SWEAT, SCREAMING..FOR HOURS AND HOURS,(on a good night) FROM DREAMING ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THESE MISDIRECTED, NAIVE AND SOMETIMES HYSTERICAL PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY TO ME ON THE PHONE OR eMAIL. AAARRRRAGGGAAAHHHHH! OK,...OK...I'M ALRIGHT NOW..gonna pour myself a good brandy. THERE. I'LL GET THROUGH THIS TONIGHT...I WILL... OK, NOW....'TILL IT STARTS ALL OVER AGAIN TOMORROW MORNING.. I, Umm...I HAVE NOTHING TO SAY.........R. Allen Cook
pgm refiner - Moreno Valley, California
July 4, 2008
why when someone lays it out for you you think its wrong?
its not safe you can't do it in your house or basement if you get it wrong you die!
SO look it up and then think about it!
get it wrong, you're dead and everyone close to you.
can't fix dumb
- rock springs, Wyoming
July 4, 2008
I have started down the Aqua regia route for reclaiming PMG's from cats which I'm quite comfortable with, being a retired scientist(chemist). I do like Chuck's method however and if I had seen it early enough would have gone down that road as it appears nice and clean. What I can't fathom with Chuck's method though is that separation of the PMG's seem to be straight forward but the scientific papers on the subject say you only get separation of the PMG's if you use a carrier metal such as copper. Perhaps the key to it is the flux's that Chuck uses! Any comments, Chuck?Bob Keen
- Palmerston Nth, New Zealand
July 4, 2008
Also, I too am interested in procuring platinum from catalytic converters. I have read these questions and also the answers in great detail tying to resolve the correct procedures to make these extractions of platinum. However, could someone give the correct Step #1 Open up the converter with a torch, Step #2 Strip the insides of the converter and place into a large crucible, Step #3 Melt all of the contents, etc. and so on until the last step of removing slag from the platinum. I have tried googling on the internet and I have not found any significant "steps" to extract platinum from converters. Is there any one who can steer us folks in the correct step by step procedures? What # step do the different chemicals get added in? As soon as I obtain the correct step by step procedures for the extraction of platinum from auto catalytic converters, I will post it on the major internet services (google, yahoo, etc.) for all to use. I would like to thank whom ever sends this information so that it can be distributed to people who do need extra income for their families.
Thank you again, Sincerely, I Remain,Don Weaver
hobbyist - Palacios, Texas
July 9, 2008
Why is it that all these cat convertor thieves are asking how to extract the platinum, that is how we know there is no real interest in the metal other than its resale value, if anyone had done their homework, they would know that the current market price for an ounce of platinum is closer to $4k, the current market for rhodium is closer to £18K.Scott Edgeler
- London, England
July 9, 2008
Hi, Scott. I personally think people are misguided in their amateur precious metal recovery efforts, but I have no reason to assume they are thieves. I guess in some areas there is catalytic converter theft but I've never heard of an incident in my local newspapers or on my TV stations, and my son who is a local cop here hasn't seen any incidences of it either.
If you've suffered a theft yourself, I'm sorry for you -- but please don't demand that we make the presumption that anyone we see climbing the church steps is on their way to rob the poor box :-)
July 11, 2008
OMG....IT'S STARTING AGAIN. PLEEZ, STOP IT SCOTT. WHY ARE You QUOTING SUCH ABSURD SPOT-PRICES FOR PLATINUM AND PALLADIUM? IF YOU WILL REFER TO THE CURRENT DAILY PGM CHARTS DISPLAYED BY KITCO, YOU WILL KNOW A LITTLE MORE ABOUT WORLD MARKET PRECIOUS METALS BUYING AND SELLING VALUES. C'MON, SCOTT....JUST KEY-OUT "KITCO" OK? I'M GONNA GO TO BED NOW...GAWD.r. allen cook
- moreno valley, California