finishing.com logo
    HOME / sitemapFAQsBOOKSHelp WantedsAdvertiseContact   you are here: Hotline/Forum => Letter 25024
most fun in metal finishing

Titanium plating (Electrodeposition OF titanium)


++

Q. Dear sir,

Is titanium plating the same with term 'Cladding'? How can I apply Titanium plating to plastic mould or steel to strengthen its hardness. Do you know where can I learn or practice such thing because I work in the manufacturing company that makes spare-parts like gear, mould, cutting blade, etc.

Thank you Best regards,

Cokro Pranoto
- Utrecht, Netherland


++

A. Titanium is a very active metal which cannot be electroplated. Cladding is a physical process where a skin of titanium is mechanically bonded to the substrate. But you are most likely talking about a vacuum deposited layer of titanium nitride.

pic of Ted Mooney Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey


++

A. By titanium coating do you mean titanium nitride? If so, it is not the same as cladding. Titanium nitride (TiN) is deposited by either chemical or physical vapor deposition. Cladding is more of a mechanical bonding process, and involves much, much thicker coatings. TiN and similar coatings are used extensively on cutting tools and wear components because the coatings are very hard (>2000 Hv) and very wear resistant. They are also used as decorative coatings on such items as faucets and door hardware because a wide range of colors, all the way from satin nickel to bronze, can be produced without changing the set-up (only the relative amount of process gases needs to be changed). Because the coatings are very thin, it is easy to maintain tolerances.

treglio portrait Jim Treglio
American Faucet &
  Coatings Corporation


Vista, California


October 21, 2008

A. 'Body jewellery
Physical vapor deposition is often used to produce black implant-grade, autoclavable body jewellery. Biocompatible titanium coating is vaporized in an arc then electrically deposited on stainless steel jewellery.'

Copy-pasted from the bottom of the 'physical vapor deposition' article, wikipedia.com

Daniel Williams
- Bloomington, Indiana



++++

RFQ: I need to do 25,000 S.S. material rod to Titanium Plating which is .154 " diameter & 6 " long so please give me price. Thanks

Shah Vijay
- Cypress
outdated


++++

A. Your inquiry is vague, Mr. Shah, considering the comments that it is a follow-up to. You did understand that you cannot electroplate titanium onto these rods? So, are you looking for mechanical cladding, or for vacuum deposition (and, if so, pure titanium or titanium nitride)? Is there a spec to comply to that would give people an idea of the thickness and the proposed purpose of the coating? Thanks.

pic of Ted Mooney Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey



-

Q. I have asked this question before but received unclear responses due to the confusing question I posed. I would like to know if Titanium can be electroless or electroplated onto steel and cast iron? Thank you very much for your time. Mark

Mark Robidoux
- Malvern, Pennsylvania


-

A. No. Titanium cannot be electroless or electroplated onto steel and cast iron. Titanium is too active to electroplate. However, some alloys containing a small amount of titanium might be electroplatable; I'm not sure. Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey


-

A. Titanium can be deposited on steel or cast iron by PVD processes.

treglio portrait Jim Treglio
American Faucet & Coatings Corporation
Vista, California


+++

A. Titanium can be electroplated from water based solutions and also from non-aqueous solutions.

Recipe 1:
70 gm sodium metatitanate
30 gm sodium acetate
30 gm sodium hydroxide
1 lit. water, 30-70 °C, 1-5 A/dm2

Recipe 2:
100 gm Ti(OH)2
40 gm HCl
100 gm NH4Cl
water 1 lit.,pH 4-5,30-50 °C, 3-4 A/dm2

Recipe 3.:
30 gm Ti( in form of TiCl3 or TiI3)
200 ml toluene 0,02 % pitch(?)
800 ml ethyl alcohol
18 °C, 21 A/dm2,graphite anode

All from Russian book L.I.Kadaner:Galvanostegija (electroplating handbook), Kiev 1964.

Goran Budija
- Zagreb, Croatia


+++

thumbsup2You never cease to amaze me with your reference material, Mr. Budija! So I really am curious -- but these formula don't seem to offer any exotic solution to the problem of plating so active a metal, and I have to wonder about their validity. I hope someone tries them and gets back to us, but there has been erroneous stuff published in plating textbooks from time to time and my guess is this is one example :-(

pic of Ted Mooney Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey


++++

Very late response to Mr.Mooney! I am just metalwork restorer, and once upon a time I have this book in my hands. Sorry for my [limited] English.

Goran Budija
- Zagreb, Croatia



Ed. note: To minimize duplication, offer more comprehensive information in one place, and ease the hunt for information, we've merged together several threads about the electrodeposition of titanium which were previously separate.

If it seems like the readers are 'ignoring' other responses in the thread, it's probably because at the time of their posting the other responses were in a separate thread and they didn't see them.



+++

Q. I need to Titanium plate onto stainless steel. Having never attempted this I need some suggestions.

D. Prickett
corporate recognition awards - Grand Rapids, Michigan


+++

A. Hi, D. You can't electroplate (in the conventional sense) titanium. The hydrogen in the water of solution will be reduced long before the titanium will be reduced.

It is not impossible to deposit titanium or any alloy of titanium in some fashion; in fact, titanium sputtered stainless steel sheet is commercially available -- but please explain what you are trying to do because conventional electroplating is impossible. Maybe it's titanium nitride vapor deposition (gold colored finish) that you are looking for?

pic of Ted Mooney Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey


+++

A. What type of titanium plating are you looking to do on stainless? We supply titanium plated SS sheets (Type 300 series).

Thanks,

Michael Liu Taylor
   specialty stainless steel distributor
Dallas, Texas


+++

A. Michael, by what method are you "plating" SS. Clad-ok, PVD-OK. Electroplated?: I am with Ted, basically impossible, at least commercially.

James Watts
- Navarre, Florida

misc. plating stuff
For Sale cheap



+++

A. Electroplating or electroless plating - no chance. However, try vacuum deposition technologies.

Trevor Crichton
R&D practical scientist
Chesham, Bucks, UK


+++

A. Titanium electroplating recipes:

I. 70 gm sodium metatitanate
30 gm sodium acetate
30 gm NaOH
Water-1 lit, 30-70 °C, 1-5 A/dm2

II.100 gm Ti(OH)2
40 gm HCl
100 gm NH4Cl
1 lit water,pH 4-5,30-50 C,3-4 A/dm2

from L.I.Kadaner: Galvanostegia (Electroplating) , Kiev 1964.

Goran Budija
- Zagreb, Croatia


+++

thumbsup2Gentlemen:

Reading the full list of responses reminds me that the proper answer might reasonably be, "We cannot do it TODAY, but tomorrow the technology may allow it to be done." I would have agreed with all those who said it cannot be done, until one person steps up and says that it can. I am definitely going to file those ideas permanently.

Thank you,


Ed Budman
- Pennsylvania


+++

A. Sorry for being a little late on this response folks. However, some useful discoveries were made in the mean time, so you could thank me for that!

The original question regarding Ti was not about Ti at all (when I checked into it last time, couple of months ago.) Some people think (or call) titanium nitride or other decorative compounds of Ti as Ti. The person was looking for gold and other color coatings. So when someone asks for Ti plating next time, let's have our question ready, what color is it?

Mandar Sunthankar
- Fort Collins, Colorado

Titanium Guide



++++

Q. I still am curious about Mr. Budija's recipes, and can only add that the older I get the more I learn there's always more that I ignore. Just one question to him and all the chemists out there reading this, since the chemicals he mentioned are really not exactly my field: About formula 2, can an alkaline salt Ti(OH)2 be added to an acid solution of chlorides with a pH of 4-5 without precipitating its metal? Will the alkali be partially neutralized and water and titanium chloride form?

Thanks,

Guillermo Marrufo
Monterrey, NL, Mexico


+++++

Q. I was doing a preliminary search on the feasibility of electroplating titanium onto Nickel and came across this message board.

Has anyone attempted the recipes proposed by Goran Budija, or confirmed the validity of the referenced material?

Its been about a year since the post above, so if anyone has had success during that time it would be great to hear about it. Thanks.

Ryan Walker
- Waterloo, Ontario, Canada


+++++

Hi Ryan. Personally I don't think Goran's formulas have any chance of working, but no one so far has tried them and told us the results.

 
pic of Ted Mooney Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey



+++++appended

Q. Dear sirs, I am very confused about titanium plating on bronze or aluminum products, and it is a very big fence,so we have to plate titanium separately, but we will have to weld them together, how to plate titanium on the surface where we weld, or is there any way to cover that part just like titanium plating? I'd be great appreciate if I can get your answer

Della Li
casting company - Shanghai, China


+++++

A. Sorry Della, you can not plate titanium out of a water based bath. It can be done with some very special equipment from an organic based bath, but it is expensive and limited to much smaller parts than a fence. You can basically forget welding any plated part. weld and then plate. Touch ups like brush plate on weld over plate are ugly!
Virtually anything other than galvanize or plastisol or vinyl coating or paint/powdercoat are going to be very expensive [for a fence], even in China.

James Watts
- Navarre, Florida

misc. plating stuff
For Sale cheap



+++++

Jim W

I was involved a few years ago with a Canadian group that was working on a wet chemical plating system that could deposit titanium (as well as aluminum), but I'm pretty sure they're a long way away from production work. Titanium can be vacuum deposited, so Della may be calling that a plating, as the term ion plating is often used for vacuum deposition processes. However, your answer holds even more so for ion plating -- no way to touch up the weld areas, and even if you could you'd still have to put the entire object in the vacuum system. If you're going to do that, assuming that such a vacuum chamber exists, you might as well coat after welding.

treglio portrait Jim Treglio
American Faucet & Coatings Corporation
Vista, California


+++++

Jim T.-- You are correct. I got sidetracked into thinking of aluminum plating. The correct reply should have been that there are no commercial methods of plating titanium on any metal.

James Watts
- Navarre, Florida

misc. plating stuff
For Sale cheap




+++++++appended

Q. I am new to this site and I have a question about Titanium plating as well. Can smaller objects, specifically rings be plated and if so how durable are they? How would one go about plating with Ti?

Marisa Desoff
- Troy, Michigan


++++appended

Q. I am a student of Ph.D. (Chemistry)In Quaid-i-azam University Islamabad. I want to electroplate titanium on stainless steel. I do not know how it is done. I want to ask the procedure and possibilities of the reaction.

Java Intruder
student - Islamabad, Punjab, Pakistan


++++

A. Most of us think that it cannot be done, but if you read earlier letters in this thread, you will find possible recipes. If you try it, let us know if it worked for you.

James Watts
- Navarre, Florida

misc. plating stuff
For Sale cheap



++++

A. About titanium plating, I know that some peoples are actually working on a titanium plating process in organic media, at room temperature. Will it work properly ? Do coatings made with this process offer performance enough for industries requirements? I don't know. However, as far as I know, preliminary tests were promising.

Moreover, as with Ted, that Titanium plating bath recipe presented on that discussion list left me speechless. This is the first time that I'm seeing a titanium plating bath made with water. My curiosity have been tickled and I will surely try it.

Daniel Picard
- Boucherville, QC, Canada


+++++

A. Aluminum is electroplated commercially. Siemens patented this back in 1978. The formula they present in the patent uses toluene as one of the constituents. It seems to me that the issues with electroplating aluminum and titanium are similar - so why shouldn't the solutions be similar?

David Ruben
- Tempe, Arizona


+++++

thumbsup2Thanks David. I'm familiar with the fact that aluminum is being plated commercially. Although aluminum and titanium share the similarity of being more electronegative than hydrogen, 'similar' is context sensitive, and apparently they're not similar enough to be plated out of the same or 'similar' plating baths, although as Daniel says, they're working on it.

pic of Ted Mooney Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey



++++

Q. Currently we are trying to deposit Ti over SS by molten salt electrodeposition method, up to now we didn't get any positive result. Can anybody suggest the process parameters like selection of salt, current, temp.... Hoping for some reply.

Harandeleted
ME student - Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu, India



++++

Q. Not many water soluble Ti compounds out there. Make a new one. Isn't there Ti in bones? If it's in your body, isn't it water soluble?

Anthony Brown
- Dayton, Ohio

Handbook of Physical Vapor Deposition (PVD) Processing


+++++

A. Hi Anthony. There's more to it than dissolving titanium into a water soluble compound. You still have the issue of reducing it before the hydrogen in the water reduces.

pic of Ted Mooney Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey


November 23, 2009

Q. Electroplating of titanium from sulfuric acid solution. In reference to plating Titanium, why must it be reduced before hydrogen in order to be plated? Please explain.
Margaret

Margaret Parker
engineer - San Diego California


December 23, 2009

A. Hi, Margaret. Let's assume you have dissolved some titanium into the sulfuric acid, so the solution contains titanium ions. For simplicity we'll say they are Ti++ ions, although titanium can have other oxidation states too.

To electroplate the titanium as a metal onto a substrate we need to add electrons to those ions to reduce their oxidation state from +2 ionic state to the 0 metallic state:

Ti++ + 2e- => Ti0

But if (which is the case), this reaction is much much "easier":

H2O + 2e- => H0 + OH-

,

Then what happens is that you can't electroplate titanium out of an aqueous solution because the electricity you put in all just goes to liberating hydrogen from the water. The same goes for aluminum and some other metals.

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey


April 12, 2010

Ever tried dissolving standard liquid paper in acidic solution and then plating the residue titanium byproduct? (hint, hint)

Ti02 can be dissolved in hydrochloric acid, chlorine gas is released and Ti is left in H20 solution, reduce and restore pH as necessary adding dissolved rock salt saline solution, and then plate titanium as per copper sulfate solution,

About 95% of titanium ore extracted from the Earth is destined for refinement into titanium dioxide (TiO2), an intensely white permanent pigment used in paints, paper, toothpaste, and plastics. It is also used in cement, in gemstones, as an optical opacifier in paper, and a strengthening agent in graphite composite fishing rods and golf clubs.

When used in the production or handling of chlorine, care must be taken to use titanium only in locations where it will not be exposed to dry chlorine gas which can result in a titanium/chlorine fire. A fire hazard exists even when titanium is used in wet chlorine due to possible unexpected drying brought about by extreme weather conditions.

Daniel Nittmann
alchemists intuitory - Hoppers Crossing Victoria Australia


April 13, 2010

Hi, Daniel. Yes, you can obtain titanium compounds and dissolve them in acid. But, no, you can't plate them out of an aqueous solution like you do with copper. The electrons you supply to the cathode will not reduce the titanium ions to titanium metal, but will simply liberate hydrogen gas from the water. The same reason you can't electroplate (from an aqueous bath) with magnesium and aluminum.

Based on some study of the history of chromium plating involving proven fictions in Russian reports from a particular time period, these Russian reports of titanium plating from the same time period would appear to me to be a fiction. Guessing is no substitute for experimenting, but I'm not equipped to do the experiment, and we haven't yet heard from anyone who has. Thanks.

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey



+++++

Q. I am researching depositing small layers of Ti metal, I have found a reference that describes depositing Ti at room temp out of organic salts:

Electrodeposition of Ti from TiCl4 in the ionic liquid 1-methyl-3-butyl-imidazolium bis (trifluoro methyl sulfone) imide at room temp: study on phase formation by in situ electrochemical scanning tunneling microscopy

I. Mukhopadhyay et al Electrochemica Acta 50 (2005) 1275-1281

My problem is I'm looking to deposit on the order of 50-500 nm and this paper shows on the order of Angstroms shown with STM! If any of you take a look at this let me know if you think that I can deposit this relatively large thickness from what they show.

Thanks,
Ed

Ed Herderick
- Columbus, Ohio


++++++

A. A granted patent in China and Taiwan and pending patent with USA, Japan, Australia and EUs of a process of depositing advance materials such as titanium under atmospheric pressure has been developed which is favorable for thin film coating.

The process requires further R and D to turn it to practical use. Published detail of US pending patent application no. 10/130,582. The writer is the sole applicant and ownership of IP.

Thomas Chang
- Hong Kong


++++++

Q. Titanium plating fairly thick (150 microns) layers on a polished glass substrate, releasable, is of interest for fabricating the thin mirrors needed for astronomy in space. Nickel mirrors are successfully produced in this way, particularly by Media-Lario in Italy, but titanium may be better in terms of weight and stiffness.
For our Luciola project of stellar interferometer (www.oamp.fr/lise/seminaires/LabeyrieCNESLuciola.pdf) we need 100 or so mirrors, 200 mm in size, having a modest optical quality since they serve as small solar sails.
Any test results, with electroplating or other methods ( Schoop projection , etc...), will be highly welcome.

Antoine Labeyrie
College de France - Caussols, France


++++++

Q. So after all, did anyone try Mr. Bujian's plating recipes?

I am about to try a process for depositing titanium by CVD, using the tetraiodide under flowing hydrogen at 450 °C. Does anyone have experience with this process? From what I've found,a DC or RF plasma is necessary, and thermal CVD will be insufficient. Can anyone confirm that?

David Carnahan
manufacturing - Newton, Massachusetts


March 2, 2010

A. There are many Russian books with chapter on titanium plating. Anybody can download some of them from next website http://lib.prometey.org/ (if you can read Russian). Hope it helps and good luck!

Goran Budija
- Zagreb, Croatia


++++++

Q. I am also very much interested to plate titanium onto a metallic surface from an electrolyte solution and that too at around the room temperature. Are there any such processes existing ? Further - has anyone ever tried out the co-deposition of titanium and boron to get titanium di-boride plating? For that matter, is co-deposition at all possible from mixture of salts ?

thanks

Asimava Roy Choudhury
- Kharagpur, West Bengal, India


January 14, 2010

A. In reply to Asimava Roy Choudhury. Titanium diboride can be plated from molten salts - please check out Journal of The Electrochemical Society, 156 (2009) D131-D137 where it was deposited from NaCl-KCl-NaF-K2TiF6-KBF4 at 700°C

Adam Whitehead
electrochemical surface technology - Wiener Neustadt, Austria


sidebar April 13, 2010

As an alternative to water, I believe the solution may be reduced to a white/clear powder and then mixed with certain molten semi conductor without hydrogen, hey seriously if y'all are worried about people counterfeiting coins I will stop posting (hint hint)

I wouldn't use titanium anyway, doesn't work well with nitrogen under cold fusion...too brittle.

Daniel Nittmann
Alchemists Intuitory - Hoppers Crossing Victoria


April 14, 2010

thumbsup2Hi, Daniel. I see no mention of coins, counterfeited or not. I see no mention of cold fusion.

Are you on a different thread than us, or in a different dimension?  :-)

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey


February 6, 2011

Q. Here's my problem: I have a unit on my swimming pool that produces chlorine by electrolysis of salt water. The unit obviously consists of an electronic control unit and a cell containing anode / cathode plates through which water is pumped. I have had the unit for about 5 years and it has worked perfectly up until now. The electronics is still OK, the electrolysis cell has given up. I tried to contact the original manufacturer but they've gone belly up.
According to the original sales literature the plates are titanium coated, which makes sense considering the reason for the electrolysis - i.e. to liberate chlorine not electroplate the electrodes.
The original cell is a sealed unit but I have managed to open it and modify the case to allow removal of the plates. The plates appear to be mild steel with a black coating which I guess is titanium. From the years of continuous use the plates have corroded especially around the connections used to carry the electric current, which have corroded away.
Now the questions: Is there a way I can coat mild steel plates with titanium at home? From what I've read here electroplating is out of the question. If not would someone let me know where I can have some of these plates manufactured. Or what about titanium plates, would the cost be astronomical? Finally, if titanium plates are an option is it possible to weld onto titanium, the original plates have 4 mm rods spot welded to form the terminals?

Roy Plant
- Johannesburg, Gauteng, South Africa

February 7, 2011

A. Hi, Roy. Titanium is more costly than steel, but less costly than silver. It requires heliarc welding like aluminum (see www.thefabricator.com/article/arcwelding/titanium-you-can-weld-it). It is available as solid sheets, and as a mesh, and probably as a "boxed mesh" like aluminum screens for windows.

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey


November 5, 2012

Hello Ted, nobody gets your point. I appreciate your efforts. The patents mentioned in this thread are still pending though it is irrelevant. We have to revisit the theories that were postulated and accepted as common sense until now to change our viewpoints over reactivity, especially to solve this issue.
Thanks and Regards

Balaji Umapathi
- Bhubaneswar, India


May 31, 2013

Hi everyone,

Ted is kind enough to respond in a polite manner to every comment and his arguments are more then reasonable. Sometimes the nature puts us some walls that we cannot cross. This is simple nature, the Ti is more active than H2, and you cannot plate it from water.
I did my PhD in Chemistry and often I had to read scientific literature, and I can tell you that is difficult to reproduce the chemical reaction published in the majority of journals, no matter if there are Russian, or European or American; so do not hope to much from this. This is because, often, the authors do not give all the tricks, and also because it can go on mg scale but not on g or kg scales. Also, from my experience, a lot of Russian literature is very questionable.
If there is no commercial solution to titanium plating, means that it cannot be done. Is that simple! CVD or PVD is another topic that have nothing to do with the real plating.

Cheers,

Radu Popescu
- Barcelona, Spain


May 31, 2013

A. Hi Bajaji. Thanks. I understand that titanium can be electroplated from ionic liquids, and I suspect that we'll have a revolution in the electroplating industry one day soon as we move from aqueous solutions to ionic solutions!

thumbsup2Thanks for the kind words as well as the technical input, Radu!

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey


September 15, 2013

A. Titanium plating patent pending:
www.metalfinishing.com/view/24839/an-alternative-approach-to-plating-of-titanium-and-ti-alloys-using-carbon-foam-substrate/

Wes Sliwowski
- Oceanside, California, US


November 30, 2013

A. I am planning to work on electrodepositing Titanium from a simple salt bath onto a given substrate.

The fact that Titanium is more negative than hydrogen does not mean that Ti could not be electro or electrolessly deposited from aqueous solution of simple or complex salt bath onto a substrate. I am looking for answers to this challenge.

Bassey Udofot
- Knoxville, Tennessee

ADD a Q or A to THIS thread START a NEW THREADView This Week's HOT TOPICS

disclaim

 seek

JobshopsCapital Equip. & Install'nChemicals & Consumables Consult'g, Train'g, SoftwareEnvironmental ComplianceTesting Svcs. & DevicesUsed & Surplus


©1995-2014 finishing.com     -    Privacy    -    Search