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Letter 20708
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Dear Ted,
We would like to thank you for the information provided by you. As mentioned in my previous mail, I have noticed and verified that the same flatware we use is rusted. However we at our family are still using the flatware. I would be obliged to you if you could provide with information, as to whether eating from such rusted flatware is potentially dangerous and hazards to health. If so please let me know in detail because right now I am under constant fear and apprehension that I might be slow poisoning me as well as my family. Also would like you to mention the journal quotes regarding health hazard caused by the same enabling me to study in detail. Looking forward to your prompt response. Thanking you
With best regards,
JACOB JIMMY
- MUMBAI, MAHARASHTRA, INDIA
Jacob, I have already said that my family uses rusty utensils too. It is harmless and your apprehension is misplaced.
This is not intended to be a rude reply, but go to a library that has the particular journals you have confidence in and look it up yourself :-)
If anyone else feels that it is something to worry about, we will be more than happy to print their reply! But I simply can't spend my limited time travelling to a medical library to generate a research report for you on something that I know is not hazardous just to 'prove' it's not hazardous via medical journal quotes. Sorry :-)
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 Ted Mooney finishing.com Brick, New Jersey |
Hi Jacob,
That was a good reply you got from Ted ... and I wouldn't dare argue with him as he's 6'3" tall !
I think that many people using stainless steel cutlery will have noticed rust marks now and then ... some 'stainless' will not rust too easily but some knifes, for instance, show rust marks BUT they are invariably made, I think, from a low grade 400 series AND they take a good edge and stay sharp.
May I suggest that you go to a local sheet metal shop because they should have mesh 'pads' they'll use, especially for aluminum and stainless, to remove scratch marks somewhat. I occasionally use them to remove the miniscule rust marks on some of our knives.
Also rust is iron in its NATURAL state ... and I wouldn't think that mini amounts it would harm you. However, probably curry in excess might do so !
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Freeman Newton |
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+++ Dear Jimmy, I just opened a can of food for my daughter with a screwdriver (because our can opener just broke). After I got it open, I noticed a small rust stain on the tip. I made my daughter something else to eat. Then I ate the can of food so it wouldn't go to waste. At this point I thought that it was pretty stupid of me to eat something that I thought might be hazardous to begin with, so I went online to find out if it is indeed hazardous (tetanus was my concern). I've had absolutely no luck finding out anything substantial. I was searching for about 30 minutes when I came across your coorespondence here. I can't believe that some from the "The home page of the finishing industry" told you to "look it up". Like there would be any other way to reach something as obscure as "The home page of the finishing industry" if you weren't actively trying to "look it up". I want you to know that I can't believe the response you received. I hope that all of your experiences with Americans aren't like this was. I am NO expert in my field (educational multimedia production), but I help anyone who asks to the best of my ability. Just one question: If you were worried, why continue to use the flatware until you found a concrete answer? Ed P.
Ed, I immediately responded to Mr. Jimmy's question to the best of my ability, replying that the rust is not anything to worry about at all. Mr. Jimmy was not satisfied with my opinion on the matter, but followed up with a polite demand that I promptly conduct research for him and provide "journal quotes regarding health hazard caused by the same" and "in detail" research. I replied again that it was not necessary, and I would not do it even though my own family uses rusty utensils -- that if he needed that kind of in-depth research report he would have to locate the journals himself. I included two 'smilies' in my response to make sure he understood the light tone of my answer. It's a world of limited resources, and a dozen new inquiries are sent to this site every hour of every day, around the clock . . . I answered a question to the best of my ability and I need to move on to the next one; I cannot possibly spend a day at a medical library and conduct a research project for him to prove that it is harmless as he has asked me to do. I have publicly answered hundreds upon hundreds of questions from the city of Mumbai here and thousands upon thousands from the Indian subcontinent -- I don't think you need to apologize to the people of India for me on behalf of the people of America, Ed. Please help "to the best of your ability" by going to the library and doing your best to find those medical journal articles that Mr. Jimmy wants. We'll be more than happy to print your findings here or pass them on to him. If you can't find the time to do that, please apologize for yourself rather than for me.
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There are many websites with information pertaining to Tetanus which do not include a single sentiment related to the ingestion of rust, therefore, without conducting test yourself (of which many extensive tests have been conducted and published by various private companies) you can deduce that rusty objects are not toxic if ingested. Please note that there are products that do produce toxic substances when they come into contact with rust.
Kristan Wifler
- Burlington, Washington, USA
You will get a little iron in your diet, that is a good thing. We use an iron skillet all the time and so did my mother. I have been around for over 50 years. Don't worry Just eat well.
Chuck Crouser
- Athens, Alabama
We have been boiling water in an enameled cast iron kettle. I just discovered that the bottom surface on the inside of the kettle has rusted. I have been suffering with a sudden onset of asthma. I am 52 and have never been asthmatic. Could there be a correlation between the rust contaminated tea water and asthma attacks?
Francesca Weiss
kindergarten teacher - New York, New York
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++++++ I think the original question was a good one and deserved a sincere response. A simple "I don't know" would of sufficed. As opposed to a snide, "you'll live" response. I'm sure the gentleman utilized this site for info and if you just said, " I don't know", he would have moved on to do other research. Sharon
N
But the point is, Sharon, that I DO know: Rusty flatware is nothing to worry about, which is what we've said from the very first post! Please don't demand that I reply "Sorry, I don't know if it's poisonous" when I know for fact that it's not. News agencies and politicians have much to gain from promoting chemical paranoia. We stay up for the late news if the teaser is "Toxic Timebomb in your kitchen!" but we won't stay up for "Harmless after all", so the news never runs items of reassurance. The result of the relentless drumbeat is that people are terrified of everything they could possibly eat with -- aluminum, teflon, plastic, pewter, bronze, cast iron, etc. To the extent that now Jacob is even "under constant fear and apprehension" of stainless steel of all things! And people simply will not accept that something isn't hazardous. If anyone suggests it, as I did, we are attacked with "You don't know that! Admit that you don't know!", and every attempt to reassure is interpreted as snideness.
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After cleaning my bar-b-q grill and seeing the racks that have sat out in the humid weather here under the cover of the bar-b-q all year I realized that rust must indeed be ingested by many, and in large quantities that we cannot see. As we do brush the crusties off the grill, inevitably we expose more rust. It is especially noticable when a buttered bun comes off with lines. Well, we are not dead, however the toxicity will never be known unless we conducted an experiment. As many of us smoke or drink coffee, the taste buds have a tinny flavour most of the time, and metals would be hard to detect. If it interferes with your digestion, then be on the look out for the source of your unfriendly meal, avoiding the same in the future.
Lillian Joubert
- Port Alberni, BC
I just noticed while looking at the bottom of my Betty Crocker
kettle that the element has rusted in many places and that there was
a lot of rust residue at the bottom of the kettle. Like others in the
column, this rust have been ingested with my coffee, did worry me. I
have sent an email to General Mills about this subject and I am
waiting for a response. Will keep you updated.
Renee from Montreal
Renee Houde
- Montreal, Quebec, Canda
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+++++++ I obviously was't the 1st person to wonder if rust ingestion would harm me. I'm sure I won't be the last. I am not a person paranoid that toxins are chasing after me nor would I like Ted to waist his life freeing the world of their socially induced thinking and parinoia.I just simply stumbled across this site like many others before me in search for the answer as to whether my recent ill feeling was related to discovering that the opened and refrigerated can of fruit I just ate out of two days ago had some rust around the inside of the can. I had not noticed it at 1st and wasn't really concerned after I had already eaten and did notice it. When you start feeling bad sometimes in your mind you do start to wonder if you may have eaten anything or done anything to contribute to the problem. That's only natural.I was a bit amused, concerned, and suprised to see the slight conflict going back and forth about the initial question of the rusted eating utinsils. I completely understand the reason for the request of the medical information concerning the issue, although it may not have been nessecary. I think that all that was really wanted or needed was a explaination of why rust was or wasn't something to worry about ingesting. Kristan seemed to give a short, simple, and reasonable explainaton for why it is probably not something to worry about. Ted's initial response was not as direct as what you expect or are use to getting from a medical informer. I belive he meant well and tried to answer the question in a way as to say " ease your mind about it", and we probably should. This did not include a direct yes or no or even any explainations as to why he thought what he stated were his thoughts. Many people repect doctor's in thier professions but are still aware that their thoughts and feelings are still human and subject to error. General explaination clarifies these thoughts for the person seeking information. He may have not understood the reason for further questioning but the answer would leave most feeling like they were not informed much more than if they had picked up the phone and just asked their nieghbor what they thought about it. Providing research on the anwser may be worth more than the answer so I can understand not wanting to go that route but when people spend a lot of time looking up information to finally get to this site it would not seem like too much to ask just to get a small explaination. Whether it was meant or not the tone of Ted's last few responses to this issue seemed more annoyed, defensive and condensending rather than reassuring, informative and confirming. This is my 1st time on this site. I don't know how this normally works but I hope to see less conflict surrounding future responses if I choose use this site in the future. sha
Hunter
Sha, I appreciate that you spent time searching before you got to this site. Even still, I am not a "medical informer". This is simply a public forum for industrial metal finishing. People ask questions and anyone is free to answer. When no one else replies to a posting, I try my best to do so because a forum that is all unanswered questions would be worthless. If you find any info, we'll be happy to print it. Thanks. We've managed to stay "on the air" for 12 years and through 50,000 threads because we refuse to print ad hominem replies -- they invariably degenerate as you can see in the public comments section of any on-line news article. We made an exception and printed criticism of me, considering them "site suggestions". But you can see what happens; it goes on and on and the thread becomes more about the shortcomings of an individual than the technical topic. So we're not printing any more criticisms of me or my response; if you dislike me or my answer, I'm sorry, but this thread is finished being ad hominem and is going back on topic.
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My son is renting a home built in the 1980's and it has the original dishwasher. The racks are so rusty that the rack posts are falling off in the wash cycle. I have been looking for documentation to back him up in requesting a new dishwasher and have not found anything. Does anyone know the hazards of washing dishes in this type of environment?
PJ Coulter
hobbyist - sacramento, ca, usa
I don't think any testing organization or regulatory body considers the life of a dishwashing machine to be 20 years or beyond, PJ. So they don't conduct research on 20 year old dishwashers. I would suggest taking the route of trying to find documentation on the life of a dishwasher and telling the landlord a 20 year old unit is unsatisfactory, rather than trying to prove a specific hazard.
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Ted Mooney finishing.com Brick, New Jersey |
I would estimate that the dosage of metal is small if you can't
taste it or get sick within twenty minutes of eating and entering
your bloodstream. The bigger, and probably obvious issues are if the
flatware can be cleaned well enough, and what kind of metal are you
eating. Plain old iron is abundant in nature, and I would think is
only absorbed by your body at a modest rate. Now they have discovered
aluminum in alzheimer patients, but I would suspect the control
patients as well. There are even publicly funded messages in the
media now about not breathing flatulence. I don't recommend it
either.
I'm guessing that you already made the decision not to use the
flatware anymore, and you mainly wanted the proper reasoning behind
it. My advice is to stop using them until replated by an expert, and
then use them with pride.
G Hamm
- Chicago, IL, USA
Hi, G. Thanks. Although silverplate is routinely plated and replated, I have never heard of stainless steel flatware being plated or replated. We have several threads on line here about brand new stainless flatware rusting (letters 15689, 18486, 23891, and 29294 for example); in some cases people are reporting being unable to find any new stainless that doesn't rust, and expressing regret that they disposed of their old flatware.
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Ted Mooney finishing.com Brick, New Jersey |
I, too, stumbled upon this website looking for answers to the
question about ingesting rust. Inspired to continue searching, I
stumbled upon the following website:
http://www.realsimple.com/realsimple/content/meal/0,21770,1619581,00.html
What I thought particularly useful was the fact that they cited an
apparent expert. Here's probably the most useful quote from that
site:
"If you accidentally cook on a rusty surface, the food may acquire a
metallic taste, but it won't warrant a trip to the ER, says Elena
Juris of the American Association of Poison Control Centers."
Tom P.
- Fullerton, CA, USA
Call it O.C.D., but teflon or any surface I cook on must be an impartial element giving off nothing into the food. A look at the chemical reaction has the answer.
Chris Kydd
- Encinitas, CA, USA
Hi, Chris. I certainly have nothing to say against a person who wishes to not use teflon cookware. But out of curiousity I do ask what you consider to be a safe material to use.
Regards,
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Ted Mooney finishing.com Brick, New Jersey |
I found Tom P.'s response very helpful-I followed the link and learned that Cream Of Tartar + water can help remove some rust. I wasn't terrified of ingestion, just wondering because the pan seemed to be giving off alot and was wondering the effects. I cleaned the pan gently with cream of tartar and water, and it removed some of the rust and lessened the amount of rust particles/ residue that came off when wiping/ using. I'm about to use it now!
Kate M.
- Austin, Texas
Stumbled onto your site because I was curious about the possible effects of my old Revere Ware tea kettle that was producing green water from the oxodized copper bottom that had apparently penetrated all the way through to the surface that touches the water. Needless to say, I threw out the old kettle and went to Costco and bought a new one. It was my impression that Revere Ware was lifetime cookware, but that's apparently false where the kettle's concerned. Tea drinkers beware.
Cherie Swanlund
- Fallbrook, Calif, U.S.A.
Hi...Here I am back (last September 24/07)....General Mills asked
me to send back the kettle to have it analyzed and sent me a brand
new beautiful kettle and toaster, not Betty Crocker's but Beaumark
set, higher quality and style.
I was thrilled about that but I had asked to receive a report of
their findings, which never came.
I must follow up just to see if they will provide me with a
report.
Renee from Montreal
Renee Edwardh
- Montreal, ,Canada
Perhaps the concern here is not so much over cause and effect (ie.
does rust harm me) but rather the broader issue of correlation (ie.
whether or not rust harms, is rust usually found with something that
IS harmful, and therefore is rust a good sign that here is something
bad and I shouldn't use the utensil).
Eg. a I step on a rusty nail or knife - isn't this the usual reason
why tetanus shots are encouraged? It's not the rust, it's the fact
that it has been there so long it has rusted, therefore it has been
there long enough to pick up harmful organisms that might hurt me.
Similarly, a rusty BBQ might imply an old BBQ, hence lots of
cancer-causing leftover stuff not properly cleaned off over the
years, hence making an otherwise less dangerous pit more dangerous to
human health.
Paul Ng
- Johor Bahru, Johor, Malaysia
I came across this discussion in the course of seeking information
to either support or refute my wife's contention that rust (in fact,
ANY ferrous iron other than stainless steel) cookware causes cancer.
We recently married late in life, and her carbon steel phobia has led
to the disuse of an authentic Chinese wok; a set of very high quality
carbon steel Sabatier kitchen knives; and all of my mother's, aunt's
and grandmother's cast iron cookware. Nothing but "stainless" (which
we all know isn't REALLY stainless) steel for my better half.
My search for any shred of information even remotely suggesting a
link between rust on cookware and cancer (or any other medical
condition known to modern science) has proven absolutely fruitless.
My own solution is to humour the wife and use the el cheapo
"stainless" knives when she's around, but when she is traveling and I
am cooking only for myself -- out come the Sabatiers and the cast
iron pots and pans.
In short, my most dilgent searching has disclosed nothing that even
suggests eating of slightly rusty carbon steel utensils has any
deleterious health implications.
Harwood Loomis
- New Haven, CT, USA
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November 11, 2008 Hi Ted, Adrian
Lobo
Thank you, Adrian. For a skillet, you can nearly completely prevent rusting by keeping it well seasoned with cooking fat or oil. Letter 4988 offers several people's suggestions for the best way to season cast iron skillets. Good luck. Regards,
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Thanks to all for the comments, suggestions, etc.
We use cast iron skillets all the time, and one was really rusty when
we got it. I don't worry about using it at all now.
We recently acquired a Hobart 1/2 HP meat Grinder that is really,
really old. When my husband found it, it was very rusty. We have
soaked it in vinegar and used
Steel Wool [link is to product info at Rockler] and now some
sanding. It is cleaning up quite nicely.
I guess the main question is, would you be afraid to use the meat
grinder?
Thanks for your continued support of this subject.
Laura Davis
- Hawley, Texas
Hi, Laura
I'd certainly be more leary of old meat than rusted metal. If it has been disassembled and is clean, I think it's fine. You can deter future rusting to a pretty good degree with any kind of edible oil. Try to "wax" the parts with bacon grease for example or wipe them with olive oil. Don't use petroleum oil (3-in-1, machinery oil) as this is poisonous.
Regards,
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Ted Mooney finishing.com Brick, New Jersey |
Rust in and of itself is not harmful to eat. It is simply iron
oxide. You can find an MSDS sheet for Iron(III) Oxide, also known as
rust, here:
www.iolitec.de/homepagenano/msds_nano/PDF%20nano%20MO/MSDS%20NO-0006-HP%20Fe2O3.pdf
Note that the only precautions are against getting the dust in your
eyes or lungs as it will be rather irritating.
The principal concern with rust is that it is often more porous and
thus retains more moisture than the original material, which creates
a good colonization site for bacteria, and places for dirt to hide.
Additionally, since it may cause flaking of the metal, in severe
cases of rusting (not surface rust like you would see on stainless
utensils), you cannot clean deeply enough to reach contaminants that
may be hidden behind the flakes.
In the case of the meat grinder, I personally would worry somewhat
about cross contamination, if the rust is so deep that you can't get
it off with a wire brush or sandpaper.
Kip Frances
- Renton, WA, USA
In response to the rust issue. I looked up the MSDS info (which
sounds very scary) but realized this must be some sort of industrial
strength and quantity they were referring to. Then I looked up Iron
(III) Oxide on Wikipedia. Here's the link:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(III)_oxide
Wikipedia may not be the best authority but I think it balances out
the MSDS info. It's interesting that this compound is used in
cosmetics and as an FDA approved dye. Also, at the bottom it says
under biochemical uses that nanoparticles are non-toxic. It appears
to me that as long as wer'e not actually going out and finding large
amounts of rust to eat that we'll be fine:)
Dana Persson
- Salmon, ID, USA
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January 24, 2009 Smashing! This is the second time that an odd search has taken me to this amazing site. I wish you WERE medical experts, since this site is generally better able to handle the obscure and far more interesting in tone than medical sites. Thanks to the last few posters for excellent documentation to support poor Ted's very practical and correct advise. I'm amazed that he doesn't go mad or close the thread entirely, but very grateful. I'll go make some tea in my rust dotted kettle now, with no further concern. Mary
Morris
Thanks for the kind words, Mary. Regards,
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April 25, 2009 I just found this site while I was looking for an answer
about the same question, "Will rust harm you if
ingested?" Terry Lockwood
June 7, 2009 Hello Ted, Sharon Silva ----
August 27, 2009 Hi Dana, I went to the Wikipedia entry you provided and would like to amend the website address you supplied. The type of iron used in cosmetics and tatoo inks is Iron (II) oxide (2 rather than 3), which is common rust. Iron (III) Oxide (3) is known as magnetite. Wikipedia also states: "Iron pigments are also widely used in the cosmetic field. They are considered to be nontoxic, moisture resistant, and nonbleeding." Visit en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(II)_oxide or en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_oxide for more information. Rob Martin
August 29, 2009 Hello everyone here, very nice website which i found,
like a lot of you it seems, by Googling whether my rusty pan
will kill me hahaha Jess b
September 28, 2009 Despite the diligence of the owners of this site, I have
to take exception to many of the answers presented
here. Ryan Tierney
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