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18/8 Flatware Rust Spots, page 2
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I recently replaced my old dishwasher with a Bosch (stainless steel interior model). All my knives, (including those that never rusted in the old plastic interior dishwasher)are covered with pits and rust. Removal is not the problem (Bartenders Friend works beautifully), but why should stainless that never rusted before suddenly be spotted? Could it be the stainless steel interior? I am using the same detergent and rinse agent I used before.
Marie Montange- Sun lakes, Arizona
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'Do you mix the 35-year-old stuff with the new and see rust spots only on the new?' - Saint Helens, Oregon +++++++ This is in response to the person who wondered whether old and new flatware, washed identically, leads to different results. Well, I have an old set of relatively inexpensive Pfaltzgraff flatware, which indicates it was made in Indonesia. This old set has never rusted, and it has gone in the dishwasher constantly for over 15 years. I tried upgrading recently with a set of 18/10 flatware made by a company called Stanley Roberts (from Overstock.com). Lovely stuff, but, the new knives rusted within weeks. I got an identical replacement set, and again the knives rusted. No rust at all on the forks or spoons. Now, we have had the same dishwasher for a couple of years. We have been using the same detergent (Cascade 2 in 1 ActionPacs with Dawn) for a long while. This is an older house, with older pipes. Some other poster here, with a brand new house, said it happened to them, so it isn't that. After the new stuff rusted, we sent it back and took out the old stuff. Still no rusting on the old flatware. - Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania |
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It seems that there is an important point that has been neglected, most knives are made with 18/0 and not 18/8 or 18/10. Test you knives with a magnet and closely compare the polishing to the other pieces. Also, someone mentioned inferior quality products due to inferior alloys, this could be a cause; however, most factories would only take a chance switching 18/8 for 18/10 because no one would know the difference and the quality of 18/8 vs 18/10 is virtually the same when considering everyday use products such as flatware
Timothy Kang- Bordentown, New Jersey
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I was surprised to find so many problems with flatware stains. Reading all the suggestions has been very interesting. My flatware is 35 years old and Made in Japan. I never had problems until recently when I moved to north Carolina. New home, plastic pipes. The knives are now acquiring rust spots on the blades, more pronounced in the serrated edges. Gotta be either the water or the detergents.
Betty HoltAirframe/Powerplant Mechanic - Waxhaw, North Carolina
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As someone stated, the knives seem to be the bulk of the problem in rusting compared to the other pieces. It does seem that they are made differently, especially when tested with a magnet. But what I did notice, and see if anyone else does, in my set being 18/10, the knives do not have the print of 18/10 on the blade, but only
'stainless steel', while the other pieces clearly state 18/10.
Are we to conclude that the knives are made differently, and should be handled separately from the rest?
- Lake In The Hills, Illinois
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Add Gorham and Lenox to the List! In an attempt to simply get rid of all the ancient mismatched flatware, bought new 18/10 Gorham. Rusted the first day. Got our money back from the store (reluctantly), bought Lenox with it. Rusted in one week - knives, forks, spoons - all of it. After having read all of the above postings, I am willing to believe this is shoddy workmanship and the result of poor quality control in the China factories. Who do we write to to complain? Our senators? Will someone please post a list? :<
M Hollis Hutchinsonbuyer - Dallas, Texas
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Hi, Hollis. Buy with a credit card and don't pay for defective merchandise. When the customer service desks are piled to the rafters and beyond with returned garbage, quality may improve.
But be aware that some stores are tracking your returns and giving your name to others of their ilk! Buy too much of their defective merchandise, and they flag you as a complainer who is not allowed to return anything. See http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/money/shopping/shopping-tips/holiday-returns-1205/overview/
Patronize LL Bean, Lands' End, and Nordstrom who reject this concept of holding the consumer responsible for the quality of the stuff they sell. If you shop elsewhere, look around the registers for insignia for "The Return Exchange"; if you see such logos, do yourself the favor of not buying anything from a store who sells you defective crap and tries to frighten you away from returning it.
If you do write to your senator, tell him/her that this invasion of privacy -- one store secretly impugning your reputation to other stores without even giving you a chance to defend yourself -- and this collusion of maintaining "blacklists" of consumers who complain
-- should be an imprisonable offense :-)
The retailers claim that the purpose of the system is to catch cheaters who use stuff then return it, but in practice it allows them to profit from selling hazardous and defective merchandise and cowing the victims away from returning it.
As for imports from China . . . with poison in the dog food, drugs in the seafood, antifreeze in the toothpaste, lead paint in millions of children's toys, cadmium in children's jewelry, and counterfeit everything everywhere, be of good cheer knowing that rust on flatware won't hurt you.
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 Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey |
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Very interesting posts.
I purchased my flatware over 7 years ago and never had any problems with it until I moved to my new house. Now it is getting rust stains and discoloration/rainbow staining on all pieces (spoons, forks and knives).
For this reason I don't think it is the quality of the stainless steel as ours is older. Although I don't know if I were to purchased a new if my problems would be worse.
Now I am now trying to figure out what is causing it. My conclusion is it is one of the following:
-New homes water quality. I guess we could get a water test.
-New dishwasher. Our new dishwasher which we purchased as soon as we got the home has a stainless steel interior whereas dishwasher was I think plastic. We paid around $1000 for the dishwasher, so I hope this isn't the problem.
-New detergent. We have been using Electrasol 2-in-1 Tablets with Jet Dry (they gave us a 5 year supply when we purchased our new dishwasher for our house). In our previous home we used liquid formulas such as Cascade. Many of them had lemon in them or bleach, so I am not sure that is what is causing the problem for others. Although they could have changed the formulations on the detergents since then.
-Other metal items in dishwasher. At first thought it was this as I have metal mixing bowls that I thought may be rusting at the rim. I have since pulled them out, has helped a little, but still not solved the problem entirely. We have now stopped putting any metal in the dishwasher but our stainless steel.
This is a total mystery to me.
- Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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I used my previous flatware daily, for 34 years, without any rust spots. I am now trying to replace it with new 18/10 flatware and have tried two different top-of-the-line brands, both of which have had rust spots on the knives....what's happening?
Sheila Heinrichhomeowner - Martinez, California
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I have been reading this thread with great interest as I had purchased a set of Oneida from Costco for a second home we have in Maryland and ALL the flatware started rusting within a week of being used and washed in the dishwasher. This is a new townhome in a new urbanization with completely plastic pipes. I use the same dishwasher soap/rinse I do at home in Chicago (Lemon Cascade/JetDry) where I have no problems on my very very cheap made in China flatware from ChefShop.
Differences: The townhouse in Maryland has a Maytag dishwasher with metal parts (if I remember rightly - will check on next trip) in the interior of the dishwasher whereas at home in Chicago I have a Fisher & Paykel with a completely plastic interior.
If a previous post mentioning electrolysis is correct the metal parts in the dishwasher could be causing or contributing to this in conjunction with maybe iron rich water.
Margaret Ruiz- Aurora, Illinois
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I too have a horrible "rust" problem with my flatware. I moved into a brand new home about 8 months ago, brand new dishwasher, purchased brand new Hampton Silversmiths flatware about 4 months ago after my old stainless steel flatware started to rust in my dishwasher.
The new flatware rusts worse than my old cheapie set! I have noticed the knives and large tablespoons rust worse than the other pieces. At times, there's a GUNK on the silverware once removed from the dishwasher... gross!
Luckily, I have the receipt and will be returning the three sets to the retailer they were purchased from. I don't feel the need to deal directly with the manufacturer since the only way to contact them is by snail mail and this is the only flatware set I own. I don't think sending my flatware off to the great unknown is in my best interest.
- Springfield, Missouri
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What brand of dishwasher(s) are you using? I've read your stories, and mine is the same. I had Reed & Barton and had no problem when I was using my old dishwasher. We bought a new dishwasher (Bosch) and at the same time, I moved my Reed & Barton to our lake house and bought Oneida 18/10. Almost immediately did I start seeing rust spots. I'm sending the set to Oneida per their instructions. In the meantime, I bought Target brand 18/8 and used it over Thanksgiving. The set started rusting almost immediately. The set I have at the lake house (GE brand dishwasher) is still doing fine. I am learning a lot from these posts, as I have never heard not to use the new Cascade with bleach and I have also never heard not to use lemon products. My husband and I were wondering if the problem was with the Bosch. For one thing, I have never been a big Jet Dry or any rinse agent user. With Bosch, you have to keep that rinse agent reservoir full. I would be interested to know who of you having problems is also using a Bosch dishwasher...
Thanks...
- Germantown, Tennessee
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I have a Maytag, which is plastic lined. Now you're telling me that's why my flatware doesn't rust. That's good to hear, and every dark cloud has a silver lining :-)
Because I have been kicking myself for two years for buying this flimsy piece of junk dishwasher which bears no resemblance to the reliable Maytags of the old days. The CEOs have squandered in a couple of years a reputation that took generations to build. Although I have no information on any particular flatware company, "meatball whoring" (taking money in exchange for letting their logo/meatball be prostituted by being put on 3rd party garbage -- more delicately called trademark licensing) may well be the problem with some of these name-brand flatware companies.
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 Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey |
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Since purchasing a Bosch dishwasher one and one half years ago, our stainless steel flatwear often emerges with rust stains especially on the knife blades, but on spoons and other surfaces as well. This is high quality stainless which we have washed with other dishwashers for 46 years with no prior staining! I suspect there is something about the washer that leads to these stains. I understand that Bosch operates at a higher heat than others. Could this increased temperature in combination with chemicals in the detergent be the problem? This thread refers to many instances of such staining and a few correspondents have singled out Bosch. Other writers don't mention the names of their machines. It would help if others will identify their dishwasher brand. This might help us to narrow down the problem, for example, to Bosch. Incidentally, Bosch customer service was totally unhelpful on this staining issue.
John Zinner- Bethesda, Maryland
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I am in a new home, new dishwasher, second set of new silverware-the latest a Gorham set- the rust stains continue. GE is going to send me something to clean out the dishwasher. We'll see if that solves the problem. Highly doubt it. If not, I'll be returning this set as well and going back to my old Onieda set.
I tested the pieces for magnetism. All of them were slightly magnetic with knives, and spoons being very magnetic. This is 18/8 silverware. This is crazy. I echo the sentiments of many, we shouldn't have to handwash our silverware. That's why we have dishwashers!
- Dallas, Texas
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I've posted on this thread previously. Wanted to provide an update that I returned the Hampton Silversmiths flatware and purchased a set of Oneida. AGAIN rust spots! AGAIN more on the knives and large spoons vs. the other pieces (I have some pieces with ZERO rust spots).
Dishwasher: Whirlpool
Dishwasher detergent: Cascade gel packs (non citrus)
I never had issues with rust on my silverware in my previous home
(again, moved into my new home about 9 months ago)...
I have used the Cascade gel packs forever. My mother uses them as well and has zero problems with her flatware rusting.
I am purchasing another set this weekend, from a different retailer to see if it's possibly a supply issue?
- Springfield, Missouri
January 27, 2008
We're also seeing rust spots on our knives (one set is 7 years old; the other set is 20 years old). We never had rust spots on these knives using cheap plastic interior dishwashers. We recently purchased a new highend LG stainless steel dishwasher (interior and exterior) and are now seeing rust spots. The dishwasher does not have a heater coil.
Anyone seeing rust spots using a dishwasher with a plastic interior?
- Merrimack, New Hampshire
February 19, 2008
I have Oneida Aquarius from over 14 years ago, no problems.
Recent additions to my set = Problems! Looking at the backs of the flatware, the new pieces are made in China.
I think China as manufacturer for these different flatware companies is the common element, and the cause of the problems.
Do we have any recourse other than getting replacement pieces made of the same inferior quality?
Is there any testing or standards set by the manufacturers?
- Sterling, Virginia
February 20, 2008
Rust spots and pitting on my flatware is only the beginning of my concerns with recent purchases of Oneida flatware.
Has an investigation been started by anyone into the flatware being produced in China for these major brand names (Oneida, Reed, et al)?
I do know that 'low quality' flatware produced in China for Dollar Tree stores and the like have been found to be 'leeching metals', and consumers have been warned from purchasing and using the flatware, but no recall has been issued.
My recent Oneida purchases have not only been far inferior to similar pieces from the same line (Oneida Aquarius)that I bought 14 years ago, but my son refuses to use them because he says they have a
'metallic' taste.
This really concerns me. Trace metals can build up in the body have have dire consequences.
Is there anyway to 'seal' the flatware?
buyer - Leesburg, Virginia
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February 26, 2008
I found this forum, because I'm also having problems with my flatware rusting, and was thinking about getting new, better stainless. Now I wonder if that is even possible! - Mooresville, North Carolina March 25, 2008 I also have problems with rust spots on my Hampton Flatware and this began recently. Have no idea as to why, haven't changed a thing it just started and I've had it for several years but only used it several times. However, as it does have a life time guarantee I would like to return it to the manufacturer however, lo and behold I can't find the address for Hampton Silversmiths and even the internet can't seem to produce one. Any suggestions as to where I can obtain this? Linda Shirleybuyer - Canada |
March 29, 2008
My beautiful set of Lennox 'Mediterranean' stainless steel flatware has black-finished knife handles which are rusting and blades that are spotting. The other pieces are neither rusted nor spotted. What can I do about this? We just replaced our plastic-lined dishwasher with a stainless-steel lined model. But the problem is identical with both machines. No lemon scented detergent. We use Kirkland (Costco) brand powdered detergent.
Mayo Earnesthomemaker - Anacortes, Washington
April 8, 2008
I have a 60 year old set of Gorham sterling and it sure wasn't made in China. The knives have stainless steel blades. I never have washed the silver in a dishwasher -it's hand washed. I have not used it in years and when I pulled it our recently, the knife blades had rust spots on them -- real rough, pitted looking spots. The tarnish cleans off the silver but I can't get the rust spots off the knife blades. I'll try anything -- Bartenders Friend? Toothpaste? Thanks for any input you can give me.
Cecelia Cook- Pawleys Island, South Carolina
April 18, 2008
At least now I know I'm not the only one! I had some cheap Oneida Bancroft flatware I bought at Target when we moved into this house 15 years ago. Never rusted. I saw that on ebay, this flatware was selling for a lot of money, so I thought I'd be smart and sell it, then buy a really good quality flatware. I bought $300 Oneida at Kohl's. Guess what? Rust. After the first run through the dishwasher. Wrote to Oneida - the President of the company, no less, and no response. Returned all of it (Cost a mint to mail...) to Oneida who were happy to replace it with a brand new set. You guessed it - rust. This time returned to Kohl's who gave me the money back no problem. Bought another set of Oneida - same thing. So switched brands. Tried Cambridge. RUST! Here is the common thread: ALL WERE MADE IN CHINA! I can't seem to find ANY flatware that isn't! I think all those people on ebay already figured this out. I think I'll try to buy back my old flatware on ebay!
Loye SchulthessAtlanta, Georgia
April 18, 2008
Hi, Loye. Because I am an engineer and from industry, and I see that many companies enforce testing & quality control wherever they have their product made, I was very unwilling to accept the idea that today's stainless flatware from China is the cause of this rusting.
Further, not having any new stainless myself, I had never seen any of this reported rusting. So, as reports started coming in to this site, I initially wanted to blame the well water, or the detergent, or the dishwasher, or an off-brand of flatware, or scrubbing the stainless with steel wool, or mixing stainless with silverplate in the dishwasher. But it's become absolutely overwhelming -- we're drowning in complaints, we've published hundreds -- and it seems that much of today's stainless flatware rusts regardless of any of these other factors.
Yes, I have come to the conclusion that today's stainless steel from China rusts because it is garbage and that the flatware companies may be practicing "meatball whoring" -- licensing their logo/meatball for use on garbage. If any spokesperson for any flatware manufacturer is reading this, it's time to present to the public some sort of test results demonstrating that your company is not part of the problem :-)
But try putting only one brand (one set) of flatware in a basket at one time as I have seen reports on other sites that this has solved the problem for some people. Regards,
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Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey |
April 22, 2008
I found your thread and having the same problem sent an email to Oneida and asked them if any of their flatware sets were "Made In America". They replied stating that only their "Michelangelo" pattern is Made in the USA. I would be Very interested if anyone has this set and if they rusted also.
John Beck- Hurley, New York
April 25, 2008
I purchased Towle brand and its been rusting since day one. (That never would have happened in 1960) It's useless to clean because it comes back like a cancer. The customer service rep at the superstore online where I purchased it said his was doing the same thing and offered all the suggestions I've read here. He also said that since we in the USA cannot afford to manufacture a service for 12 for under
$100.00 and China can is probably the reason we have to eat rust.
I finally got totally disgusted yesterday and emailed Towle (a division of Syratech) who are sending me a new set of something since my pattern was discontinued. They didn't even ask me to send a rusty knife back to them for proof, they only wanted the receipt. Hopefully they know better than to send me something else made in China because then I want my money back. Prior to this I had a set of Mikasa (made in Japan) that lasted beautifully for 15 years, in the same house, using the same dishwasher, using the same detergent, using the same jetdry, using the same water, eating the same peanut butter... The only difference is the made in China imprint on the knife blade which I believe is a dead giveaway.
I knew I never should have sold the old Mikasa set at the consignment shop last summer...
- Roseland, New Jersey
May 1, 2008
I've had the same set of stainless steel Oneida flatware for 10 years. Suddenly, it is beginning to come out of the dishwasher with little rust spots on it.
I've made two dishwashing changes lately... first, I moved into a different (rental) house, with a much older dishwasher than our previous apartment had. Second, I switched dishwasher soap (to an
"all natural" biodegradable brand).
Is one of these things causing the rust spots? Are they dangerous? Do I have to throw my flatware out? What can I do to remedy the situation? HELP!
Thanks,
homemaker - Tucson, Arizona
May 2, 2008
Hi, Amy. You'll see 101 opinions here about whether it's the water, the detergent, or the dishwasher to blame. So I'd certainly suggest that you go back to the old detergent, as that is something you can easily test yourself.
Good luck, and please let us know what happens if you switch back to the old detergent.
In my own estimation there is no danger at all in the rust spots, but that opinion earned me only disdain in letter 20708 :-)
Thanks!
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Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey |
June 26, 2008
I'm grateful for the opinions and information given here. I recently purchased an Oneida set and have rust spots on them. Oneida said to send the rusted pieces and they would replace them but, that would be the whole set and I don't want to pay shipping. Jc Penney said they would exchange them or give me store credit. Quality seems to be an issue with so many things now, not just flatware. Greed and outsourcing are taking its toll on all of us. I hope my husbands job isn't outsourced so I can afford new rusty flatware made in china...God bless America!
betsy smartt- caldwell Idaho