What is 18/8 Stainless Steel?

Q.
1. Explain what 18/8 grade Stainless is? What do the numbers represent.
2. What is the best way to clean an 18/8 bowl or platter that is being used for food service?
Is it safe to use a commercial strength dishwasher?

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A. 18/8 stainless steel is nominally 18% chromium and 8% nickel, with the remainder being mainly iron; it does however also contain other elements, but at very low levels.

It is also known as 302 or 304 grade stainless steel. This grade of stainless is generally regarded as one of the "workhorses" in stainless steel as it is widely available and cheap (relatively!). It also gives a great finish when electropolished. This type of stainless steel is usually quite soft and prone to surface damage. As far as cleaning it is concerned, it should be OK in a dishwasher as it is widely used in kitchen utensils. However, you do not say what sort of dirt you are trying to remove; if it is normal domestic contamination, there should be no problem. If it is heavier contamination, you may need to use a mild abrasive, but be warned, if it stainless has been electropolished, you may damage its reflectivity and scratch the surface. If you do scratch the surface and if it has not been electropolished, any scratches can be polished out, if you have the patience. If it has been electropolished, you would need to polish out the scratches and then re-electropolish, but electropolishing should only be done by a competent person as it uses high electric currents and very nasty chemicals. As with many stainless steels, avoid putting it in contact with high levels of chloride ions as this can etch the surface, making it rough and even promote rusting in some stainlesses.

Trevor Crichton R&D practical scientist The Pheasantries - Chesham, U.K.

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A. Note: 18 and 8 are "minimum" values, not nominal.

Allen Johnson
- North Carolina

Q. I bought s/s (18/0) flatware and cookware and wish to know the meaning of 18/0 (in terms of metal composition and use in cooking/cleaning/durability/health/...) thank you for your help.

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A. Giamirene, 18/0 means 18 percent chromium and 0 percent nickel. Stainless steel that has no nickel in it like 18/0 is magnetic whereas stainless that has nickel in it like 18/8 or 18/10 is non magnetic. The magnetic type should be a little less expensive and is probably a little less corrosion resistant.

Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey

Q. Does anyone know why my 18/10 stainless steel (a month old) is pitting and rusting? I put it in the dishwasher according to the use directions. Could there be something wrong with the flatware coating or with my water? Help.

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A. Kate, I don't think there is any coating on stainless flatware. If there was it wouldn't last long!

Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey

Q. I have flatware with the same rusting problem you describe, but only on my knife blades. The manufacturer is Gorham and they say it is due to a different alloy used on the knife blades which oxidizes when moisture sits on it. They recommend hand washing and drying or drying it as soon as the dishwasher is done running. I have heard other manufacturers also have this problem.

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A. Greta, if you test your silverware with a magnet I think you will find that the blades of the knives are magnetic even when the rest of the flatware isn't; I believe that's because the magnetic 18/0 holds an edge better. But some people sometimes note that the blades rust whereas the rest of the flatware doesn't.

Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey

Q. I'm getting very mixed messages about the quality of flatware available today. I own a whole kitchen's worth of "stainless steel" utensils that never rust, corrode or pit. Recently, I purchased a beautiful set of 18/10 flatware from Wallace. Well, I'll be darned if this great "quality" stuff doesn't rust, pit, and stain. The claims are that the "8" or "10" add to the anti-corrosion quality. Not so. It was only after much surfing the net that I discovered that this is supposedly normal. The advertising never makes this point clear of course. It happens mostly on the butter knives but has also occurred on other pieces. I'm ready to send the whole set back even though I love the pattern. Should I go back to the "cheap" stuff that I really can put in the dishwasher, say an 18/0 quality? What was my old stuff made of I wonder? If I wanted to hand wash and polish my flatware, why wouldn't I just use my silverware? Please help.

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A. Tedi, I don't think flatware is of lower quality today. But you also can use a magnet to see if the old stuff you liked was 18/0. Maybe it's the opposite? Maybe the blades of the butter knives of your old set were 18/8 or 18/10?

Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey

Ed. note, Dec. 2007: I have crossed out my previous opinion that today's flatware is not of lower quality. I do not know for a fact that it is, but based on hundreds of letters written to this site in the intervening years -- some of which tested old and new silverware side by side in the same dishwasher -- I've had to change my hypothesis. I'll gladly change it back if a reputable testing organization finds otherwise.

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Ted, Thanks for your quick response. I tested my old flatware and sure enough it is magnetic. However, it does not rust. I tested the new 18/10 knife blades and they are also magnetic, but they do get rust spots on them. The handles of the 18/10 stuff are not magnetic and do not rust. So, for some reason the metal alloy in the knife blades must be different than the handles and other pieces of the set. I may go back to 18/0 since it seems consistent in its behavior and still looks great. When I say it's "cheap" I just mean it costs less; but again, one must be careful to read the advertisements closely. Much of the 18/0 is being advertised as 18/10. Caveat emptor!

Tedi Bell (returning)

consumer - Monroe, New York

Q. 18/10 is the higher quality and 18/8 is almost the same and 18/0 is the least and used for cook ware rather than flatware. is there a better grade than 18/10 ? what is the most accepted grade for cook ware? I am thinking about buying a whole set but cant decide which one I want. also the thickness of the cookware has anything to do with the grade ? is it better if it is thick or the alloys do the trick and not the thickness. if there it is better to have thicker than how so and why ? Thank you.

Q. Flatware standards? How to you know if it is 18/0 or 18/10?

The website says the style is 18/0
The instructions say the style is 18/10

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A. Even more importantly, Nelson, how was the producing shop supposed to know what they were supposed to make? The short answer is don't buy from a vendor who doesn't even know what he is trying to produce and sell :-)

Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey

Q. I am wondering about the best way to clean rust spots (without scratching) the blade on my 18/10 stainless steel butter knives. They have a mirror finish, so it is important for me not to scratch them.

On a side note, I followed the manufacturer guidelines exactly for care and use of these knives, and have some that I have not even used. But, ALL of them have rust spots. Any idea as to what could be the cause?

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Q. I inquired about the same thing in regards to rust like spots on my 18/10 stainless flatware. One set we purchased was manufactured by Wallace. One month didn't go by and our knives in particular were somewhat pitted and had rust like spots on them...more so on the handles in this instance. It was unusual to me that all of the silverware was not reacting the same way. I contacted the company and they said take it back to the place of purchase. I did with no problems. I then purchased another 18/10 set of flatware from Oneida. I never had a problem in the past with this brand. Two weeks have gone by and low and behold the problem is occurring again....on the knives! What's up with this?

Is it the soap products we are using? The chemicals in our water? I cannot figure this out. It is really upsetting to me. Who wants to set a table with flatware full of marks and pits?

Please, can someone advise...short of hand washing everything? A softener perhaps?

Kim Zeiss
- Duncansville, Pennsylvania

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A. 18-8 is typically 304 grade stainless steel. 304 grade SS can be slightly magnetic. This is the iron. Iron rusts.
What I have found is the older the material, the better the quality. This has been due to newer technologies enabling manufacturers to get their minimum tolerances of material closer. The less of the expensive components they have to put in, the cheaper their production costs. In the old days, they would add more to make sure they had enough because they couldn't measure that precisely and cost wasn't as much of a factor. If have something made of stainless steel prior to 1960, it is probably high quality.

Rick Holmes, industrial maintenance & purchasing
- Bellingham, Washington

Q. Best producers of stainless on planet earth? I have been using various stainless bowls, and trays for 40 years and it appears that the best stainless comes from the USA and northern Europe while the worst comes from Asia. The worst rusts and pits quickly while the best does not. Does anyone know why? Are there other countries that make high grade stainless?

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A. Hi, Richard. Just as it's easy to bake a lousy cake even if you added milk and an egg, there is a lot more to the manufacture of quality stainless steel than simply putting in a percentage of nickel and chrome. It's how carefully it's made -- because rigorous control of processing parameters is necessary to keep the carbon properly distributed, build the correct crystal structures, avoid contact with plain steel, properly passivate the finished product, etc. Your best protection, slim protection as it may be, is reliance upon a brand name.

Your assessment is probably correct: If a country has an established culture of counterfeiting, and doing what you can get away with, it is foolhardy to assume that you will get quality material from that area unless you have some control. As the end user you have no control.

If the brand name has decided that they will rigorously exercise that control, you can count on them to worry about the QA and the sourcing issues, and to deliver quality product. If the manufacturer blows off that responsibility, or has become a "meatball whore" (licensing its icon/meatball to a 3rd party), they will deliver garbage and there is nothing you can do but buy from someone else, and hope that at the end of the day there will still be at least one manufacturer with integrity :-)

Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey

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A. I am not the ideal person to address these problems, as my specialty is premium knives. A lot of "rust" issues appear here and perhaps I can help,

ALL knives comprised of iron in any amount are subject to rust issue, especially if used infrequently. The only way to avoid rust, black spots, and/or pits is to THOROUGHLY dry the blade (and for good measure all of the tableware) is to dry the utensils thoroughly.

It they are used infrequently it is best to protect them from humidity with a proper storage system, or oil lightly.
For removing tarnish or spots, a product called Nevr-Dull [linked by editor to product info at Amazon] can be used. It claims to clean all types of metal and has worked wonders for me.

I hope this helps.

George Kent Smith
cutlery - Carson City, Nevada

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I've recently been shopping for new flatware since my old flatware that I used in college has the same problems with rust spots you've been mentioning (especially on the knife blades).

While shopping I see that many manufactures say that the flatware is dishwasher safe if you DON'T USE LEMON DETERGENT. Perhaps it is the citrus additives in these popular detergents that are contributing to their deterioration.

This confirms it. This link www.cutleryandmore.com/images/henckelsinternational/flatware_care.pdf states the proper care for stainless steel including not allowing prolonged contact with acidic foods (lemon, ketchup, mustard), not using detergents with chlorides or lemon content, do not soak flatware with aluminum or for extended periods, dry thoroughly and use drying cycle in dishwasher, clean any spots/rusting with stainless steel metal polish.

Jessica Bridges
- Chicago, Illinois

Q. Is there a difference in the durability of the finish of matte vs. shiny stainless steel flatware? Is one or the other more prone to scratches over time?

A. After reading the above entries, I felt testing with a magnet would be the simplest way to identify the different alloys. I found ALL knife blades have strong magnetic attraction.

Dinnerware we already own - we have a mix of brands: Oneida, Sonoma (Kohl's house brand), and unidentified spoons from a big-box dept store. We have all these for more than 5 years. There are virtually no rust, pits, corrosion on any pieces. Of the Oneida set, the forks & big spoons were very weakly attracted (18/10?) while the small spoons were a little more so (18/8?). The Sonoma and no-name spoons were all strongly attracted (18/0?).

Buying new - I shopped at two chain dept stores and tested a couple dozen sets citing various alloys. I was a little surprised what the magnet test revealed: All brands citing 18/10 always big had forks that had either no or weak attraction. All knife blades were highly attracted. Big spoons and small forks were either none/weakly attracted or slight more attracted. Small spoons (teaspoons) were all over the map even strongly attracted - even though the label said 18/10. I tested one brand of 18/10 that the big fork was the only piece that wasn't attracted. The only brand (which is the one I finally decided to buy) where all pieces except the knife blade had no attraction was J.A.Henckels.

I already mentioned that none of our 5 year old+ pieces had any problems. I feel this is because of 2 major practices: always using automatic dishwasher detergent without citrus and always using the heated dry cycle.

A. On the question of flatware becoming lower-quality over time, here's a reply from Oneida (I emailed them when I discovered their Colonial Boston pattern is now only available in 18/0, after decades in 18/8):

"Oneida has changed the majority of the housewares patterns to 18/0 to satisfy the customers demand for a less costly flatware sets. The cost of stainless has risen considerably. You should see no difference in the quality of the Colonial Boston pattern. We have changed the style of the knives to a one piece solid handle construction compared to the older two piece hollow handle knife of years back. This change was done in the Spring of 2005. It has nothing to do with the 18/0 change. I will forward your email to our marketing team."

So, they're making all their silverware cheap after all these decades. Very disappointing. Not sure how many other brands will be doing the same. Sarah Starks - Santa Monica, California September 3, 2008 I feel that the best flatware and knives of any sort is CUTCO. . . just because they guarantee against any rust or anything FOREVER . . .plus the flatware is the most beautiful flatware that I have seen and I have never liked to hand wash anything so I just put them in the dishwasher and it has worked out for me so far (3 1/2 years) and they still look the same! Jesse Jarmon - trinity, North Carolina

I used to work in the stainless steel fabricating industry designing pharmaceutical pressure vessels. I remember telling my brother about SS rusting, and like many, he couldn't believe it.

The main reason we had for rusting with a tank was improper handling of the stainless. All the tools (cutters, grinders, polishers etc.) used on stainless steel can only be used on the stainless. If they are used on regular (carbon) steel then stainless it will embed tiny particles of of the carbon steel in the stainless and it will rust. Also stainless steel needs to be properly stored. If it was store on a carbon steel rack you will have the same issues as with the tools. Once it rusts there is no cure. I should say it can't be polished out. The only way to get rust out of a tank was to cut the rust out and patch with a new piece of stainless.

My guess then is poor manufacturing processes, and not the stainless steel itself, is the reason for the rusting. I highly doubt citric acid containing soaps will corrode it since citric acid is used in a process call passivation to improve corrosion resistance of stainless. Maybe a chemical engineer could enlighten us on that? Salt is very bad for stainless - especially in prolonged contact. And believe it or not, but distilled (triple) water is also very bad for stainless steel.

I've been shopping for new flatware, and find that every set I look at is either made in China (big surprise) or Vietnam. Does anybody know of any brand that is made here in the USA or at least not in Asia?

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January 15, 2009

Sorry, Florin. Try to make do with your old flatware. In all of America there is no longer even a single factory for manufacturing stainless flatware (or a thousand other essential things). The "arsenal of democracy", which helped America win two world wars, has been relocated to China. Pray for peace like you mean it :-)

Regards,

Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey

I have been reading the questions and answers and I have also problems with spots on my cutlery. The brand (same as shop) that sells them don't want to take any responsibility. Should they? The cutlery where very expensive so I feel really bad about this!

Thanks! Annsofi

I understand that 18/8 Stainless is supposed to be 18% chromium and 8% Nickel (among other things). Apparently there are ranges that are considered to still be suitable for considering to be 18/8 still ( I believe the range can go up). What happens if the Nickel or the chromium content of the steel is lower? ie. 7.8% or 17.8%? is this going to be detrimental to the safety of the products application the steel in food stuffs?

If the nickel is low, what does this affect? and if the chromium is low, what does this affect?

Lastly can you please explain to me what the electrolysis process is that stainless steel goes through? And also explain to me if messing up on this process could allow for a bottle to rust? If not, what would cause stainless steel that is supposedly 18/8 to rust?

Thanks.

My Oneida flatware has held up really well over the years, but leaves faint gray marks on my stoneware which are very difficult to get off. Is there a flatware composition that doesn't do this? I thought about changing the dishes, but if the softness in the stainless is the problem, I need to replace it, also. Any information is very appreciated.

I'm looking for stainless steel flatware with gold trim as a gift for my daughter and am considering buying Vera Wang's "Lace Gold," which is produced by Wedgewood. I believe it is made in China because it does not appear on the Internet list of stainless flatware produced elsewhere.

I'm concerned about the pitting, staining, and rusting issues often discussed on your site, as well as the possibility of lead additives, since China has a questionable record in other areas of consumer safety. If you have any knowledge concerning these issues and this particular pattern, I'd appreciate your advice in whether or not I should purchase this pattern. By the way, there is now an American manufacturer of stainless steel flatware, but as far as I know, the company only makes one pattern, which is called "Pearls," produced by the company "Revolution." This pattern can be acquired on the Internet at www.silversuperstone.com. If I weren't looking for gold trim, I'd buy this pattern in a heartbeat. Thanks for your time!

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Ed. note: Sorry, but see www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/business/13every.html. The Pearls / Revolution / Sherrill plant closed in Apr. 2010.

It's pretty common for stainless flatware to make mark on light-colored stoneware. I wouldn't get new flatware as the quality will definitely be lower (at a higher price!) than your old set and it won't cure the problem anyway. Use Bon Ami cleanser or other low abrasive cleaner to lightly rub (don't scrub!) those scratches clean on the dishes. I have an older set of Oneida flatware that has never corroded or spotted after years of use and always being washed in a dishwasher. It's non-magnetic except the knife blades which aren't 18/8 stainless (but have never corroded)and still looks like new.

I would love to be a kind person and say everyone knows what they are talking about, but sadly, it appears I am the only person around who knows the true facts here. The main reason the new steels are of such poor quality (aside from the poor efforts by the manufacturers) is that almost all steel nowadays (but especially that from china and asia in general) is made using recycled steel. Now, just imagine that you crushed a car, and melted it down. Try to imagine what types of metals might be in the resulting ingot. The catalytic converter has platinum, possibly iridium, palladium or such type metals. There might be a bit of cobalt from the glasses(light bulbs, etc.) There's a bit of mercury from tilt switches in various places, there's gold from contacts in circuit boards. There's some germanium and arsenic in some of the circuit boards, part of the silicon chips. There's tin conductor on the circuit board lines. There's lead in the battery. There's a couple of small lithium-ion batteries on the circuit boards that keep the memory when the main 12 volt battery is temporarily disconnected. I guess you're getting my drift here.

So sure, you can make some stainless steel and add the right amount of chromium and nickel, but how do you take out those trace amounts? The answer is, well, you don't. Now you have a lovely, shiny piece of stainless steel, but the minute you put it in contact with any ionic compound,(any kind of salt or acid) like lemon or orange juice, or table salt, and right away that platinum and the other catalytic metals in it will begin to do the job that they had before. They break chemical bonds. Like the iron-carbon-chromium-nickel bonds that hold the steel together. I have an old car I plan to fix up some day from the 1950's that's been sitting out in the rain and sun for 50+ years, and it's still not rusted. And it's not made from stainless. Just virgin steel from before the stuff was recycled. So treasure your old utensils, and hope the market demand will encourage some company to order their stainless made from virgin iron. I will gladly pay 3 times the price if I can get it. Leslie

I also had the same problem with rust spots, for the first time in my life, after I purchased some high dollar stainless from a company I THOUGHT was American! Turns out, what I bought was over-priced and made, you guessed it...in CHINA...with a fancy US name! I was VERY disappointed but too embarrassed to return the set. I have ANCIENT stainless "stray" pieces that probably didn't cost my mom much YEARS AGO. Those pieces do NOT have the staining problem and will probably outlive us all.

I purchased Pearls by Revolution...the only American made stainless set. I have only had a couple of VERY MINOR problems....likely due to the dishwasher being overloaded with heavily soiled items. I have found that the knives do better to be hand washed OR put them in the dishwasher and use the dry cycle. Certainly, if any pieces are heavily soiled then they should be rinsed or lightly wiped down prior to being placed in the dishwasher. I try to isolate the knives. Again, I have only had a couple of MINOR problems after many months of use and the problems were likely "user error". I am VERY pleased with this set. A friend of mine is getting ready to purchase the same set because it is pretty and MADE IN THE USA!

Another alternative to the POORLY made imported junk is to buy an older set off of ebay, beg, borrow or steal your granny's set, or consider purchasing an older set from a vintage shop or flea market. Barkeepers Friend [linked by editor to product info at Amazon] is a great stainless restorer but use caution to make sure your set won't scratch by testing a small area first. Hope this helps!

K

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Ed. note: Sorry, but see www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/business/13every.html. The Pearls / Revolution / Sherrill plant closed in April 2010.

I have read all the comments about new flatware rusting and pitting, and, alas, my new set has, also. However, one other aspect has not been mentioned. Out of the pitting oozes a brown, oily substance that looks like chocolate. My concern is that this might be unhealthy to now eat off. It is quite hard to get off and leaves an oily film on the knife blade. My question: what is this substance and if I can get the film off, is more possibly oozing out during a meal, going to be unhealthy? Should I return it? This is my second set; the first was a gift, but it was so bad, I threw each piece that pitted away, mostly knives. Now, another new set is doing the same thing. Any opinions on what this substance is? It does not have the texture of rust and always comes out of a tiny pit when I bring it out of the dishwasher.

I have experienced the same issue with new flatware, both flatware purchased at Kitchen Etc for what seemed like a lot of money and flatware purchased at Williams Sonoma on my wedding registry. I have found that all of the new flatware we purchased after we were married rusted badly. Not just the blades, the handles too. And they were all stamped 18/10. So I went back to what my mother and grandmother did. I have purchased similarly styled but still mismatched pieces at yard sales and thrift stores. I love the cut flowery and even the pediment motifs I have found and have never had an issue with rusting since that time. My husband will leave silverware in soapy dish water for three days when I go out of town on business without washing it and when I return nothing is rusted. I am grateful for this other method of recycling because I have silverware that does not rust now.

There is ONE stainless flatware line still made in the USA!

Revolution Flatware from NY state.

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Ed. note: Sorry, but see www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/business/13every.html. The Pearls / Revolution / Sherrill plant closed in Apr. 2010.

Electro-polishing or passivating will help to eliminate the rusting problem. Any free iron left on the surface from processing will rust and has to be removed. Also I think if you analyzed the SS you would find that there is a lot of other "stuff" in it from careless recycling.

I am currently in a materials science class and I stumbled on this page while doing some research. I have some knowledge on this subject so here are my two cents.

Your knife blades are usually going to be made of martensitic steel which is usually 12-18% chromium, <1% carbon, and the rest iron. This is a magnetic steel and is very hard, and susceptible to corrosion. But it is still stainless steel so it shouldn't corrode very quickly.

Other parts of your cookware should be austenitic steel which is 12-18% chromium, 9-12% nickel, <1% carbon, and the rest iron. This is the most corrosion resistant stainless steel and is nonmagnetic.

So in an answer to one of your questions, the added nickel is what significantly increases corrosion resistance. Knifes usually do not contain nickel to maintain their hardness, but stainless steel has the ability to shield itself from corrosion with a constantly replenishing chromium oxide film on its surface. Unless you have penetrated the steel with a another carbon based metal, your cookware should not be rusting for quite some time. The only conclusion is that what they say is 18/0 or 18/8 steel is not what it says it is, and contains other impurities.

I just searched for "flatware Sherrill" and found my way to Target.com and Made in the USA flatware is listed on their website! Hurray, maybe retailers are starting to listen! I'm going to see if any of the products are in the stores so that I can take a look at the flatware.

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April 3, 2011

Hi, Dell.

I wish you were right. Unfortunately, "The last factory in an industry stretching back to colonial times closed eight months ago in Sherrill, N.Y., a small community in the foothills of the Adirondacks, and 80 employees lost their jobs." See www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/business/13every.html. Sorry, I have to go; I need to rearrange some deck chairs :-)

Regards,

Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Brick, New Jersey

I have spent years looking for a good set of flatware.
I would rather buy "ugly" then "Made in China"! Fortunately enough, I finally found a set made in Japan by Yamazaki.
I am very suspicious of anything made in Asia in general but still have some faith in the Japanese!

Have been reading some good reviews on them too. Let's hope...

Was the flatware you bought made in China or India?

I purchase metal regularly and there has been some rusting issues with Stainless Steel purchased from these countries.

According to their website Sherrill Manufacturing resumed production in August, 2011. Those of us looking for flatware made in the USA are back in business! According to libertytabletop.com they now offer 9 pattern choices instead of just the Pearls option.

Source: www.sherrillmfg.com/details.asp?key=63714