Bronze flatware, is it safe?

A. Hi Clayton. I think the problem is more related to the alkalinity of the detergent than to the temperature or agitation. There might just possibly be a dishwasher detergent that is mild enough, but generally they are extremely alkaline and unsuitable for bronze.

Finding a mild enough one would be a win-win because it will not get things quite as clean, and the value of your washing-by-hand efforts most appreciated.

Luck & Regards,

A. Well, bronze should be an alloy of tin and copper, which sounds safe. But I don't know how to be reassured that there is no mercury, lead, or cadmium in this flatware if you don't know the details of its origin. Of course, the same could probably be be said for stainless steel or silver flatware :-)

A. Well, I wouldn't have any problem eating my dinner off bronze plates but I wouldn't use them as Frisbee's.

Regards,

A. The earliest nickel-bronze flatware that I know of was made in Sweden in 1914 by a company called Dirigold. They moved to the US and in 1935 the government made them change the name because the metal didn't contain any gold. The resulting name is Dirilyte and they manufactured flatware and hollowware until 1985. It was sold in the best jewelry stores and was quite expensive. I have some Dirilyte and also some Siam/Thai flatware and use it frequently. The Dirilyte company has a web site which sells Dirilyte polish [adv: Dirilyte polish on eBay] and offers a refinishing service as well as offering some used pieces of their flatware when it becomes available. Use your flatware in good health.

A. Was it from Bangkok? I was visiting over the Easter weekend and was shown the most wonderful Solid Nickel Bronze Flatware. They were retired military and had purchased the set during the 70's. She had all the paperwork. V United Co. LTD (VU) Solid Nickel Bronze Flatware. The pattern she had was the Pattern "K" King Design. I searched the web this morning and eBay ... only found one set of Nickel-bronze Flatware on Bay which were possibly from the same company but a different pattern. Hope this helps!

A. Bronze dishes ("Khamsa") were traditionally used in Nepal (for eating when I was there in the 70's and 80's. Perhaps also Thailand? They look like pie baking dishes, and were made by using sledge hammers to hot forge bronze by hand into molds -- I think of stone. We all sat on the floor to eat at that time (no tables) and eventually the lower rim of the plate would develop a hole from wear from being slid around on the clay floor. We'd send them back to the smith as scrap and get new ones. I ate off them for years without thinking of any danger. Copper and brass cooking pots, in contrast to bronze, must be tinned inside.* Bronze is safe to eat from without tinning. This is in general.....in any individual case there may be something wrong with the metal. Brass is more of a problem, especially if lead has been added to improve machinability (this is normal) and then the brass becomes scrap and gets reprocessed into flatware....

My impression is that the Thai bronze flatware is probably safe, but I am not absolutely sure. Maybe you should send a tiny bit to an analytical chemistry lab for testing. It might cost $20 US, I would think.

* Tinning -- lining the inside of brass and copper cooking vessels with smeared on tin plate. The tin layer wears out periodically, and in Nepal there were itinerant tinners who went door-to-door offering retinning. When the tin wore through we'd hire one of these guys. He'd build a wood fire in the front yard, heat the pots and wipe on the new tin plate with some sort of rag. Tin's melting point is very low, so this is feasible. The pots last indefinitely, but retinning is done, I think every two or so years; I am not sure of the exact period involved.

A. I have a set of bronzeware that was purchased in Thailand during the Viet Nam War. I gets very water spotted in the dishwasher so I wash it by hand. I use a bronze cleaner to polish it but I have also used a silver cleaner as silver is soft so the cleaner is not abrasive. Good Luck

A. James,

There are hundreds of brands of metal polishes and while each one does not operate on its own separate principles, there are several general types. Brasso is one "type", and it creates a beautiful warm glow but is terribly slow on heavy tarnish. Other types, perhaps because they contain sulfamic acid, work way faster and easier, although the result may not be quite as warm. I would suggest Revere copper cleaner [Ed. update 2023: no longer available] because it is made for the very heavy tarnish you get on copper-bottom pots; it is really fast.

If that doesn't do it, then the problem is probably not tarnish but the fact that the surface is no longer mirror smooth. If that is the case then it needs to be power buffed. You can send it to a plating shop for that or you can try to do it yourself with a buffing wheel and buffing compounds, or on the cheap with a buffing pad in a power drill and Mothers Mag & Aluminum Polish [on eBay or Amazon]. Good luck with it!

A. There are brass trays, some of which look like flatware. A lot are exported from India, and I've also seen them in Egypt...Probably they run from Morocco east to Bangladesh.

I have seen people put food on them to serve, but I think it is a dangerous idea to eat off them. Beside the traditional problems from pure Copper/Zinc alloys -- that is, Brass-- , I worry particularly about the fact that since the industrial revolution lead has been and is very often added to brass to improve it's machinability. The lead does not actually dissolve into the alloy, but remains segregated in tiny globules I have read. The problem is that with use, particularly if a knife and fork are used and food is cut on the plate, you may end up ingesting this lead in small amounts. Particularly for infants and children, lead is very toxic and even an infinitesimal intake seems to have damage the intellect. Adults can tolerate more, but it is never a good idea to put this capacity to the test. If you eat with your hands, without cutlery, or with wood chopsticks there's probably less, but still significant, risk.

I used to be a crafts designer in India and the supply of brass to the tray makers there is from mixed scrap. The lead containing brass is melted down and enters the market mixed with non-leaded (this is rare) brass. So if you use the trays to eat off directly, you're asking for trouble. No one in India eats from them.

So the conclusion would be that the most likely explanation is that the flatware your mother refers to was bronze but she mistakenly thought it was brass. The two can look very similar, and most people would not recognize bronze when they see it. I have heard bronze can be hot forged (like iron) while brass normally cannot, so if the item is forged rather than cast it may be the former. The other possibility was that the flatware really was brass but was meant either to be decorative, or was a tray rather than a dish.

If it's brass, or conceivably could be, don't eat off it directly.

A. Unfortunately, no one is going to be able to advise you, sight unseen, what the composition of this flatware is based on a verbal description of what it looks like to you, let alone whether it would meet your personal sense of safety, Marcy. Mathew's replies are very enlightening though.

You might find a jeweler or a scrap dealer who has a alloy sorter / scrap sorter [on eBay or Amazon] X-Ray fluorescence testing machine which could instantly analyze whether there is any lead in it, and whether it is brass or bronze. But, speaking for myself, if it is obviously expensive and a well made thing of beauty, I'd use it.

A. This is in response to Leslie H's query concerning the 3 headed Elephant bronze flatware from Thailand. I received mine (the same set, wooden box and 144 pieces) in 1968 from my brother who was in Bangkok on R&R during the war. I have never felt safe with it and have not used it but it is beautiful. I have the same concerns as you. If you hear anything else about it, please write again. Mine is stamped THAILAND on the back of each piece. Each piece is hand carved.

A. In case this helps, we've had a set of bronzeware from Thailand for 35-40 years and we're still very healthy. The bronzeware still is beautiful also!

A. Thanks, Linda. I agree. In today's world, while no one was minding the store, we tacitly accepted that it would be perfectly fine to suddenly move directly into massive importing of uninspected food from every hovel of the world. We've all seen the consequent major outbreaks of salmonella, listeria, and e-coli multiple times a year; we've heard about the rodent hair and feces in many ground spices.

We also decided that we could save money by just mixing everything up into one batch, so any given bag of brussel sprouts might contain sprouts from five different areas, with the result that it takes months instead of days to track down these outbreaks of food poisoning.

So I am FAR less concerned with what is in my fork than what is on it :-)

Worrying about the dangers of flatware sounds to me akin to fretting over whether you increase your chance of being hit by lightning if you text while driving :-)

Regards,

This thread is fantastic! I was looking at purchasing a set of brass Thai flatware, and yes, I think I will! You nailed it with the food importation logic for me......um, the pesticides and toxic run-off that is used to WATER the foods we now import probably does pose more of a threat! Fantastic site with fun, knowledgeable people!

A. I was in Bangkok, Thailand on R&R from Vietnam. I purchased a set of Bronze Flatware and have used it many, many times. It is still beautiful. Mine was purchased from the factory store. When the dealer was demonstrating or showing me the set I purchased. He told me to pick a piece and he took it to a saw and cut in two pieces to show it was solid bronze. My set came in a three drawer box also. Use yours and enjoy them as we have.
CW3 Richard Jackson
US Army Retired

A. I've lived many years in Thailand on the local economy and as a US diplomat from the 1970's through the 2000's and have seen the flatware sets in stores all that time. They have been a mainstay item for sale to tourists since at least the 1960's if not earlier. They were a high quality item which the Thai could produce by combining their flair for design with their then limited industrial capability which could be sold for a good profit through an extensive network of high end retail outlets located in hotels, jewelry stores, etc. I love the writer's story about the salesman cutting the spoon in half to show it was solid bronze! The kind of real salesmanship the Chinese-Thai merchants are famous for! I have many Thai friends who own some of the 8 or 12 place sets which have never been used or have been used only on only the most special occasions. This is a Thai characteristic of giving things value out of proportion to their real worth as some of these friends are quite wealthy even by US standards and could afford any set they would like. Its along the lines of "it's the thought that counts". As to toxicity, I doubt it. Thais are VERY particular about such things, born hypochondriacs, they are not daring AT ALL about their health, they bathe AT LEAST twice a day to maintain their personal cleanliness, etc. My wife of 30 years is Thai and she won't even take aspirin no matter how badly her head hurts so she would know for sure if it was at all dangerous to use those sets (we have a set we use for birthdays and for guests who are part of our "Thai old hands mafia"). I'd polish them appropriately and of course keep them sanitized by washing in a dishwasher with super hot water and such. Choke Dee (good luck) to all!

A. I just recently polished our bronzeware with Mothers Metal polish. It polishes to a brilliant shine.

Q. My Thai silverware seems a little tarnished. How do I polish it. I clean them in the dishwasher and dry them right away.

Q. I have bronze flatware purchased in Phoenix about 15 years ago. It has been stored (in a silverware chest) pretty much ever since. I just opened it, and it's in sad shape. It has cherrywood handles, so I don't dare put it in the dishwasher (even if that were the case). So - help!

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