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Letter 11017
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+++++++ We have been using DI water at our job to make coffee for about the past year and a half and were curious if DI water was bad for you. We stumbled upon this site for some answers and it seems like everyone is also curious too. The only reason we use the DI water is because the tap is closer than going to the water fountain and getting water. This seems to be a highly debatable topic. I think some scientific research needs to be conducted on this. A lot have talked about no short term effects but what happens in 15 to 20 years. Could this cause kidney failure or cancer? Just something to think about. I think we may switch over regular tap water. Roger Westerberg
+++++++ I would like to point out that deionized water,
demineralized water, and distilled water are NOT all the
same. In fact these words refer to the process by which they
are produced, and not a specific characteristic or purity.
Based on the specific process or equipment used to produce
any one of them, the purity will vary. Water that has gone
thru a process that removed ALL other components is referred
to as deionized. Within the context of high purity water,
this water would be more pure than that that has been made
by distillation or demineralization. However, it would not
be uncommon to hear someone say that the have "deionized
water" just because they have passed tap water thru a
deionization bed. Don Gregurich
+++++++ What happened to John Smith? John Smith from Riverside,
California left a post on May 24th, 2006. Kolyas |
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I've read several comments that tap water is safe, but I've worked
in water toxicology and sewage treatment for many years and can state
with tap water is only safe to a certain degree and under certain
circumstances.
If your tap water is recycled sewage water, it will contain
contaminants that sewage treatment cannot remove such as
pharmaceutical drugs that come through urine among others. These
contaminants are too costly to remover from public water supplies and
are not tested for for regulation purposes.
Your tap water will likely be fairly safe relative to bacteria and
heavy metals in most of the U.S.
Chlorine is not safe to drink or shower in. Most people absorb as
much chlorine bathing as they do drinking tap water. Filtered tap
water does not remove all chlorine.
Spring water from known, uncontaminated sources would probably be
best, but bottled water is not tested as vigorously as city water
even, so it's hard to know without doing your own extensive research
and testing.
Which leads me back to deionized water. I use deionized water that I
remineralize with minerals taken from an ancient sea bed. But who
knows, it could contain too much lead! Or the extraction machines
could contaminated it with VOCs...
Plastic bottled water contains dioxins -- another modern
nightmare.
Bottom line is that it's tough to live, eat, sleep and poop in the
same place and not get contaminated. We live in our own garbage dumps
essentially.
I used to identify homes in Florida with wells built next to "cattle
dipping" troughs that were filled with arsenic at one time. Families,
especially kids, would get extremely ill and have no idea why because
glass and weeds had grown over the dipping tanks by then. The ground
permeability if Florida is very high.
If I could get safe spring water in glass bottles, that would be best
I think. Fresh, clean, "living water" is best.
For now, I usually use remineralized deionized water and have had no
problem health problems from this approach. Many minerals are
essential to health, and it has been demonstrated that people who
live in places with hard water (like the mountains) generally have
lower incidence of heart disease. Much of the farm land, and
therefore vegetables and animals, is depleted of key minerals and
trace minerals that have unknown effects on health when consuming
products from this soil.
If you can't afford to remineralized deionized water, I would NOT
drink it. Even taking a mineral complex will not cover all the trace
elements that are essential in very small quantities.
One more thing about tap water. The chlorine kills bacteria; the bad
AND the good. That will lead to stomach problems because good stomach
health depends on a BALANCE of "good" and "bad" bacteria. The best
protection against illness is a strong supply of "good" digestive
track microflora. They kill the "bad" ones. Antibiotics often kill
the "good" and "bad," leaving a dangerous state where reinfection or
illness can occur if the "good" bacteria are not replenished
properly.
Steven Sauder
hobbyist - Spokane, Washington
I found this thread interesting because in my search I have not been able to find anything very convincing on either side of the argument about consumption of DI water. I am a chemist at a community college and drink our DI water daily, despite warnings that it will deplete my system of vital nutrients. I understand the theory behind the leaching of minerals from our bodies to replace what is lacking in the water, but biochemically it doesn't make sense to me. I would think that the chemical composition of the water would be altered almost immediately either due to the presence of chyme in our stomachs or, in the case of an empty stomach, due to the chemical nature of our digestive juices. I would be so interested to hear a nutritionist's or biochemist's take on this topic. Does anyone have a chemical explanation of the processes that occur upon ingestion of DI water? Thank you, Margherita
Margherita Smith
Education - Paso Robles, California
Ed. note: We also have another thread on the same topic, letter 15665.
They say DI water is good. Can some give light to this
article
http://english.pravda.ru/science/health/24-10-2006/85185-water-0
Bhasker Sharma
student - Kolkata, WB, India
I must say it certainly interesting following this thread over the
past few years. My understanding is that the risk with DI water is
that it flows freely into cells, then pulls in nutrients so quickly
through osmosis that the cell essentially bursts. In large amounts
this could be a real problem, in small amounts it is probably no big
deal. Moderation. Now that's my understanding of the risk...In
reality, DI water may be altered very quickly in the digestive tract
and blood that it simply doesn't have this effect on the cells.
I've just added this site to my favorites bin.
Brett Gardner
- Folsom, California
Thanks for your insight, Brett, as well as the kind words.
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Does DI water have a specific pH? Mine is reading 10.68 which seems a little high. We are using this in a science lab. What is an acceptable pH?
Bronwyn Duncan
- Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Is deionized water safe to inhale?
I am not even going to act like I know anything about this
subject. I have not researched the subject much before posting my
question but I run a medical equipment and supply company and I was
just asked this question by a patient's family member. That, of
course has brought me to the beginning of my research and thought
while I was researching myself I could be waiting for answers from
you folks who seem to be well educated in the subject. I thank you
all for any information you could send my way.
Thanks,
Shari Kinyon
healthcare industry - Salt Lake City, Utah
Bronwyn,
DI water has a pH of 7.00 ±.05, as pure water, by definition,
has a pH of 7. Since DI water is *almost* pure, it should be close to
7. A pH of 10 to 11 would be like hand soap or ammonia. So, either
your DI water is contaminated or your pH meter is not calibrated
properly (probably the latter). Any good pH meter should give a pH
very near 7.00 when measuring DI water. Those meters have calibration
fluids that you get from the manufacture for the purpose of
calibrating them. You can also verify this with a simple litmus test
to eliminate the water as the problem. So check those out. Another
issue with some electrode pH meters is that chemically pure water,
like DI, has no ions (hence its name), and thus produces no EMF
across the electrode (they become insulated), so the meter can give
unpredictable results.
I used to work in a medical laboratory and we would actually use our
in house DI water to do quick (and "dirty") calibrations of our pH
meters for our HPLC instruments.
Hope that answers your question, and sorry for the tangents.
To everyone else,
Back to the main thread. In the medical lab I worked in, we were also
told not to drink the DI water. Mostly because of cost. It is very
expensive to maintain a reliable tap source of DI water in a
building. The other reason is the UNPREDICTABLE health issue that may
be caused but drinking said water. This also eliminates them from
liability if you do get sick 20 years down the road after drinking
water that came from their system. From a chemistry standpoint, the
leaching of minerals in the body is definitely plausible and has been
observed in laboratory animals and human subjects. You must be very
careful when drinking DI water if you choose to waste your money. You
have to be sure that you are intaking those electrolytes through food
or other means that would normally be in the water.
In response to a few people who have raised the question of "Even if
the water does leach minerals they are still in your body right?" Not
true. Name one excreted fluid from the human body that is pure water.
None. All excreted fluids from the body contain electrolytes or salts
(Urine, sweat, tears etc.) Unless you replace those excreted
minerals, you can develop an electrolyte imbalance which can lead to
all sorts of uncomfortable symptoms and even death.
That's said, why go through all the trouble? Just find the cleanest
spring water you can and drink it. The bottom line is that there
hasn't been enough research on human subject either way to confirm
any sort of conclusion on this matter. We may have to wait awhile
until "ordinary" water sources become scarce enough that wide spread
desalination and demineralization of non-potable water occurs. Then,
perhaps, more research will be done.
Eric Lane
- Los Angeles, California
Regarding pH of DI water, my understanding is that by definition it has no pH. This is because pH is effectively a measure of the extent to which the molecules of water are disassociated into ions. That only occurs in the presence of salt/base ions. DI water has had it's ions removed (QED) ergo, no actual measurement of pH is valid. An experiment using a very clean pH probe can show that DI water exposed to the atmosphere will be very erratic, then stabilize, and slowly drop, due to the formation of very low levels of carbonic acid, as atmospheric carbon dioxide is absorbed..hope this response from a biologist can be endorsed or corrected by a chemist?
Aaron Fielder
pharmaceuticals - Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
I am a mechanical engineer and by no means a biologist but we use both Deionized and distilled water in out facility I have witnessed the "Leaching" properties on DI water as opposed to distilled water in our systems. The DI water corrodes the hard piping (steel, copper, brass, stainless steel etc...) causing buildup in out closed loop system and raising the conductivity of our water system (which is critical to our process) and is recommended only to be ran in PVC piping. The distilled water seems to be harmless to the piping, though we have only been using it for a relatively short period of time (about two years). As far as being safe to drink the "industrial grade" we use is not suitable to drink because of contaminates left in the water in the deionizing process, however I am in the process of building a new home and one of the most prestigious upgrades is a whole home Reverse Osmosis system (A.K.A. Deionized Water).
Roland Rodriguez
- Houston Texas
I have recently started drinking de-ionized water. I stumbled
across this site in my search for the facts about DI consumption. I
have a couple of basic questions. If I take a mineral supplement with
trace minerals also...will the DI absorb them from my stomach?
Are there not many things in my stomach that would re-ionize the
water once it comes in contact with it?
The DI does seem to dry out my mouth quicker than bottled, purified
water...and my TDS meter tells me I have 001 PPM.
I hope I might get an answer here. I have enjoyed the postings..but
it has left me a bit confused.
Thank you.
Scott Metro
hobbyist - Pahrump, Nevada
Distilled water is any water water boiled and recondensed so that
there is no component other than H2O. Double distillation produces
the closest practical thing to "pure" water.
Deionized water has been processed to remove ions from solution in
water. These ions are typically associated with mineral components in
the water, so deionized water is essentially mineral-free.
Deionization by itself does not remove any non-ionically dissolved
components. This means that organic compounds (which are covalently
bonded, not ionically bonded) and anything in suspension (like
viruses and bacteria) are not removed by deionization alone. Most DI
processes include means to remove these as well, so the end result is
"pure" water for the purposes discussed here.
Educational note: pH is the representation of the concentration of
hydrogen protons. It gets complex when related to "pure" water, but
for practical purposes the pH of pure water is very nearly 7.00. It
is not true that pure water has no pH. You do get funny readings when
you try to measure it with common pH measuring devices, though.
That's because the electrodes in the device rely on having some ions
available to allow a small current to flow, which pure water lacks.
This does not mean the water has no pH, just that typical measuring
devices don't work well on pure water.
As far as the effects of drinking these, I doubt you'll ever find an
exact answer. If you drink only pure water, you'd likely have
problems with electrolytic balance, but the same is true if you
intake too much water with minerals in it. I do not have a medical
background, but I can't see how a glass or two will do harm. The
mineral content "stripped" from your body would be small. You
probably remove more cells from your body when you wash your hands or
shower (remember that soap is a mild base, and cell proteins are made
of amino acids, and what happens when they meet is not good for the
cell). Also, as far as making coffee, you've so completely
"contaminated" the pure water with the coffee that the question is
moot - so drink up!
A note on "live", "clustered", "vitalized", etc. water. There is no
legitimate science that supports any of this. Same thing with
magnetic treatment of water. Go to www.chem1.com/CQ/ if you want to
know more.
Alex Hyde
- Phoenix, Arizona
I know that this thread is about drinking straight DI but it seems
as if most of the posts here are from people who like the idea of the
pure water and already have a source of DI.
This goes back a long time. We use DI water in our testing process in
large quantities. Our lab has two water systems. The DI water system
is made from 316SS tubing. we quickly found that the water was
dissolving the solder used to join the connections. We replaced the
solder joints with stainless compression fittings. We later found
that the lab faucets that we were using had a brass piece inside that
was eaten away until the faucets leaked. The faucet company replaced
them with stainless pieces and we haven't had any problems
since.
Our well water has over 1200 uS DiST (very hard) and has a rotten egg
smell that is really unpleasant. We use the well water for our
process in its raw form as the impurities are immediately consumed.
We use a softener and carbon filters to mitigate the smell in the
office space but some still refuse to drink it. We were spending over
$5000 per year on bottled water.
Being the experimenters that we are we tested ways to deactivate the
DI water since the office use would only be a fraction of our total
usage, and we pay a contract fee for our DI equipment. Here is what
we found:
DI water will dissolve a Centrum tablet 10 times faster than water,
almost as fast as a 10% sulfuric acid solution. One tablet will
deactivate up to 10 gal of water but leaves a funny taste and
particles that need to be filtered out. Calcium supplements don't
dissolve very fast and make the water stink.
Table salt will deactivate the water but only in amounts high enough
to taste. The water also has a detectable amount of sodium
hydrochloride after being passed through a coffee maker.
Sodium bicarbonate deactivates the water but is difficult to meter
into a pressurized system, and it creates a gas that must be removed.
It changes the flavor but it's a good change.
Passing the water over copper and zinc deactivates the water but only
with adequate contact time. We use wads of zinc and copper wire
inside a stainless vessel. the "re ionizer" is a section of 2" SS
pipe with stainless bell reducers on each end. We originally used a
standard wound cotton filter cartridge with copper balls inside the
cartridge and zinc pellets around the outside we couldn't keep the
contact time high enough.
We use several hundred gallons of this water monthly for everything
except flushing the toilets and watering flowers, and have found no
ill effects. adding a small amount of Sodium Bicarbonate to the water
makes it delicious. We keep a pump bottle next to the sink with a
baking soda [link is to product info at Amazon] solution
premixed.
Water doesn't like to be in a deionized state and seems to become
stable at ~50 uS. "They" say you should consume 8 glasses of liquid
per day but some of that comes from the food you eat. If you eat only
dried things you will need to drink more water. Same idea. The DI is
going to absorb something so you may as well put in what you want, or
just consume more minerals (maybe take a children's multivitamin with
each glass, lotta work).
All of our water is UV disinfected as it comes out of the ground, so
that is not an issue.
Don Donovan
- Atlanta Area, Georgia
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February 24, 2008 I will happily drink this water for you if you are in need of a human guinea pig, I too am curious whether or not it is indeed harmful, but i prefer a more hands on approach, my curiosity however does not stop at the water, I also want to find out how many household items, not labeled as harmful, are indeed inedible, i will start with sand, then toilet paper, then nasal spray, then shampoo, then soup etc. Edward Winder
February , 2008 I'm trying to read between the lines, Edward, but I'm afraid I don't get British humour and probably never will :-)
March 14, 2008 Heavy consumption can cause fatigue and headaches. While working at a winery on the Central Coast of California, I used to fill up my 32 oz water bottle at least 3 to 4 times a day from the laboratory's DI water tank. I used this water because it was the best tasting water on-site. Over the course of 2 weeks of DI water consumption, I noticed a considerable reduction in my overall energy level as well as increases in the number and severity of headaches. After I stopped drinking the DI water, my energy level increased and the headaches went away. The work that I was doing was of the same intensity before, during and after drinking DI water for 2 weeks. Now it must be noted that this experience was not set up as an IRB approved, experimental, prospective clinical trial. However, since all other factors seemed to remain constant throughout that time, it is my belief that the DI water was the cause of my fatigue and headaches. Justin Welch |
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I was once told by my dog's veterinarian. That D.I. water would not help her kidney failure. I asked "why, it has less bad stuff in it" "to clog" her kidneys. He said yes it is more pure than tap water. He went on to say that D.I. water is so pure that it strips bad things from the body, almost like a magnet, and carries it to the kidneys where they, the bad things, collect it in higher amounts. He went on to say that if you send too much bad stuff to the kidneys they fail, where as if a smaller amount of bad stuff is throughout the body it poses less risk.
Keith childs
Painter - Seattle Washington
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I was working on a chemical neutralization system and was using de-ionized water as a neutral buffer. It was a hot day and I did not want to go to the store so I drank some. I would up very ill and had to get intravenous drip to rehydrate myself. I drank approximately one gallon. I do not recommend it!
John McPherson
- Tucson, Arizona
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July 30, 2008
What do you think of this statement? Em
Camp
Hi, Em. What I think of the statement is that it's the wrong kind of thing for a public forum, considering the relative anonymity of the internet :-) We don't do brand comparisons here because it's not possible to know the vested interests of the posters, and such discussions often lead to postings by shills using fictitious names. I don't know that anybody is going to bother though, considering the low cost of water :-) Regards,
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Observation, The information presented seems to indicate:
1. D.I. water is good for drinking.
2. D.I. water is easily contaminated (bacteria, etc.)
3. D.I. water when exposed to anything, is no longer D.I.
water.
Am I missing something?
Kenneth E. Robertson
instrument service - Ontario, California
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August 14, 2008 I have read half of what people are saying about deionize water and its relationship to distill water. It is my understand that deionize water is a process of reverse osmosis. If this is true, them reverse osmosis removes ALL chemicals from the water and ALL the mineral too. Distill water is no different except how it is done [usually boil the water into steam, then recondensing it, back into liquid. Now in my 850 hours of research the best tasting water that would have to be ALKALINE WATER, a machine attached to your tap water from you kitchen faucet, filtered then ELECTROLYSED will produce ALKALINE WATER. In testing the pH value of ALKALINE WATER, should give you a range between 8.0 to 9.5, which is safe to drink, anything strong has the ability to remove lots of grease. I personally wouldn't drink very strong alkaline water. Now test the water to see its potential to reduce oxidation, the process is read by a ORP or oxidant reduction potential meter. If it reads a NEGATIVE NUMBER READING then has the ability or power to slow the oxidation or aging process down tremendously, it wouldn't STOP AGING, but slow it down a lot. This is the type of water you can drink safely. Talking about making coffee or tea. ALKALINE WATER will make the best tasting coffee [and use 1/3 coffee] to do so, while tea, it can make tea WITHOUT boiling the water! Go on line and do your own research. I found a ALKALINE machine, which after doing 400 hours of research I purchase the machine from a company with whom I am completely satisfied. It cost me a pretty penny but it is consistently great and it has given my any problems. I can't wait to see if it will last 15-years. Reverse Osmosis is referred to as "Dead Water" because it has no value to the body, the same as Distill Water. DJ
Heart
Hi, DJ. I guess you should have read the other half of the letters :-) ... because I think there are a few errors in your posting. In your 850 hours of research on "ALKALINE WATER", did you see: www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html You and the other readers may find it interesting. Regards,
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Let's not forget that the level of De-Ionization will have
different effects on electrolyte depletion in the human body.
In Semiconductor processing fabs the DI water, typically recirculated
to maintain 18 Mohm, would cause depletion very quickly.
However, in testing applications and places where the water is
carried in SS or other metals it would be less serious as the water
begins to approach normal water levels of Ionization (up in to the
micro siemens), as it picks up Ions from the piping and
fixtures.
I guarantee, that if you had a drink from my recirculating 18 Meg Ohm
DI system, you'd be a very sick person at the end of the day.
Mark Simpson
- Madison, Wisconsin
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August 23, 2008 Hey Ted, Joseph here, glad to see this
open forum and I hope the full content of my response will
be posted. Joseph
Polverino
Hi, Joseph. This thread is a technical discussion of whether DI water is safe to drink. But then people started posting stuff that doesn't quite belong. My reference to www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html was intended to be a direction where readers could go if they wanted to continue in the direction of "magic" waters and "bond angles" and so on, because it has nothing to do with what we are discussing here. Our site is a "no registration required forum" which is fine for technical discussions of generic issues, but pretty worthless for "testimonials" because it is not possible to determine whether posters have vested interests in their claims, and whether they are shills using fictitious names while pretending to be satisfied customers, etc. So we don't discuss those kind of claims on this site. Thanks for your understanding. Regards,
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There seems to be a lot of conflicting information as to whether or not DI water is fit for human consumption. Some of this stems from the terms that are being thrown around by a couple of posters. RO (reverse osmosis) water is not the same as DI (deionized) water. These terms are not interchangeable. An RO system typically is less "pure" than DI water and in many instances RO filters are used as prefilters to a DI unit.
Mark Winkler
- St. Louis, Missouri
December 19, 2008
I am not an expert in the field, but I will part what little
information I do have. I have had to research this a bit because I am
building a lab for some clients and they have a DI system. DI water
is categorized as having an electrical conductivity of 18.2 megohms
(million ohms) whereas normal tap water is around 5,000 ohms and sea
water is about 50 ohms. It is the amount of ionized substances (or
salts) dissolved in the water which determines water's ability to
conduct electricity; so the more salt in the water the less ohms of
resistance. The reason I had to research all of this is because when
you are moving water of this type thru pipes, you have to have
special pipes to maintain the waters pureness. Normal PVC or metal
pipes introduce impurities into the water and as soon as it drops
below 18.2 megohms it is no longer considered DI water. DI water will
absorb the carbon dioxide out of the air so the system has to be
sealed and have special joints and fixtures.
To sum up, if you are making coffee or drinking what is called DI
water, by the time it reaches your mouth it is no longer DI
water.
So save some money and use distilled water.
Joe Seward
- Ogden, Utah
January 5, 2009
Most of the people reading this thread obviously didn't bother to
read the pdf from the World Health Organization (a link to the report
is in the first page of comments on this letter). So, I'd like to
just sum up a few things from that report.
1) De-ionized versus distilled versus (name your production method
here) is not really a relevant issue. The issue that matters is not
the production technique, but the mineral and salt content at the
time the water is consumed. There are specific minimum
recommendations in the WHO report for certain minerals, but there is
also a lack of evidence combined with suspicion that other minerals
need to be there as well (see the recommendations section of the
report, pages 13-18). However, the report is very clear that there is
sufficient scientific evidence to warrant the conclusion that water
that has too low of a mineral and salt content is not healthy. The
health effects range from minor issues that only show up with chronic
exposure to increase in things like cardiovascular disease to
headaches and other symptoms that can onset suddenly given a single
exposure to large quantities of demineralized/deionized water.
2) Water with insufficient minerals and salts does leach compounds
from pipes (see page 12 of the report for three cases of infant lead
poisoning after families switched to reverse osmosis based water
purification in their homes without any subsequent means of replacing
the lost mineral content in the water), but the process by which it
reduces the electrolytes in the body is not by leaching. Download the
pdf, go to page 7, and read the lines that start with "Low-mineral
water acts on osmoreceptors of the gastrointestinal tract" and end
with "decrease in ADH release and an enhanced diuresis", they explain
the exact process in concise scientific terms. A quick summary though
would be that there are a series of reactions in the body, where it
senses the low sodium content of the water, releases stored sodium
into the water to compensate, detects a change in interstitial fluid
balance as a result of osmotic flow caused by this mineral imbalance,
signals to the kidneys to increase sodium excretion, and while all
the excess sodium is being excreted, you also excrete extra of the
other compounds that were not added to the water by the intestines in
the first step of this process, resulting in a net reduction of all
the other essential minerals in the blood as the body works to
excrete the extra sodium.
3) The report is based on large bodies of observational and specific
experimental data. In other words, they saw problems in the real
world, so they ran experiments to see what was up, and this is what
they found. Amongst other things, they were able to conclude that low
mineral/salt content water causes a) increased diuresis (almost by
20%, on average), body water volume, and serum sodium concentrations,
b) decreased serum potassium concentration, and c) increased the
elimination of sodium, potassium, chloride, calcium and magnesium
ions from the body.
4) They also found that food is not an adequate substitute for
minerals in your water. In particular, dietary intake of foods with
more than sufficient quantities of minerals combined with mineral
free water still resulted in overall mineral deficiencies. Cooking
food in mineral free water can result in 60% loss of the calcium and
magnesium from the food, and even higher losses of some other
essential minerals (see pages 10-12 of the report for details).
So, that being said, I'd also like to address a couple things people
have mentioned.
Regarding coffee/tea and demineralized/deionized water. As one person
correctly pointed out, once you've made the coffee the water is no
longer deionized. The process of making coffee or tea is a process of
leaching elements out of the source material anyway. A more
aggressive water would likely leach those elements even better than
normal water. The problem isn't that. It's that you first have to put
the water into the coffee maker or tea pot. While the water is highly
aggressive, it will pull metal ions from the inside of the
machine/pot. This happens before it reaches the coffee or tea, and
the metal ions stay there and are absorbed by the body. So although
it may do a great job extracting stuff from the coffee, you really
don't want part of the iron or aluminum from the inside of the
machine along with it.
Regarding people that commented they feel fine drinking
demineralized/deionized water. Two things. First, your water may not
be nearly as demineralized/deionized as the water in the WHO report.
That's the point of using actual numbers and measurement instead of
loosely applied terms that may not even be accurately describing the
water you are drinking. Second, many/most people can drink highly
demineralized/deionized water without feeling any negative effects.
This isn't uncommon in things that cause chronic conditions in human
beings. People don't notice the onset of Type II diabetes until about
70% or more of their insulin producing cells are already dead. So,
that it doesn't cause immediate and pronounced negative effects is
*NOT* proof that something is OK (smoking is probably the single
biggest example of this...the harm caused by smoking is well
established, but because no single cigarette causes immediate and
obvious harm, many people ignore the slow and steady onset of chronic
symptoms).
Finally, I make no statements as to the quality of any bottled water.
The report quantifies what it considers to be demineralized/deionized
water with numbers, not names. Any given water from any given
manufacturer might or might not meet the minimum recommended levels
of minerals and salts. I don't know which might or might not, and I'm
not accusing any of them of not meeting the WHO minimum numbers.
Furthermore, not all water filtration systems are the same. Just
because your home system is a reverse osmosis system doesn't mean it
produces the same water as the high end reverse osmosis system in a
pharmaceutical laboratory. If you have any doubts about your water
quality, I would suggest testing it, not judging your water quality
by the type of your filtration system and the comments made in this
thread.
Oh, and colas probably are worse for you, in many ways, than even the
worst demineralized/deionized water. But that shouldn't stop you from
trying to drink good water ;-)
Doug Ledford
- Apex, North Carolina
If DI water is so bad for you, why do they prescribe it in Japan to cure cancers and other diseases??
John B. Wison
- Temecula, California
On a related topic, I also work in a lab which has a DI water system. About 8 months ago I bought a fish which I keep on my desk in my lab. I always use DI water when I change his tank, at least once every 2 weeks. He is a very healthy and active Beta and there do not seem (seem being the active word!) to be any adverse effects of keeping him in DI water versus regular tap water. I am not trying to compare fish anatomy to human anatomy, especially considering that fish live their lives surrounded by water, but it is still interesting to think about..
Danielle Hatfield
- Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
I stumbled on this thread the same way most everyone has - doing
personal research on DI water consumption. I have been using a DI
water purifier for my drinking water for over 9 years. My unit first
runs the source water (private well)through a bed of resins and then
through a UV light. My TDS is between 0 ppm and 2 ppm... when I am at
8 ppm I change my tank. I have had no ill effects and most say, I
really don't drink any other water.
Looking through the posts, I do not see any factual evidence that
would indicate drinking DI water is harmful. I do not see the logic
in the argument that DI strips the body of nutrients. I guess, I can
put the minerals in my body by consuming a handful of dirt...
I am anxious to hear any factual evidence that would indicate DI
water is either beneficial or harmful.
Erwin Anderson-Smith
- Brighton, Michigan
I am forced to agree with Doug. Posters have obviously neglected
to read the W.H.O. evaluation of demineralized water that was linked
to early in this thread. To Mr. Anderson-Smith who requested "any
factual evidence that would indicate DI water is either beneficial or
harmful" I'll copy the following:
================================
Note: mg/l should equal ppm in this situation (I think)
--> pure water at standard temperature and pressure weighs one
gram per cubic centimeter so:
1 mg 0.001 g 1000 * 0.001 g 1 g
------ = ------- = ----------------- = ---------------
1 liter 1000 cu cm 1000 * 1000 cu cm 1 million cu cm
1 g 1 cu cm 1 part
--------------- X --------- = ------------- = 1 ppm
1 million cu cm 1 gram million parts
================================
Anyway:
From: Health risks from drinking demineralised water, F. Kozisek,
World Health Organization; Geneva, 2004
Experiments in animals, primarily rats, for up to one-year periods
have repeatedly shown that the intake of distilled water or water
with TDS < 75 mg/l leads to: 1) increased water intake, diuresis,
extracellular fluid volume, and serum concentrations of sodium (Na)
and chloride (Cl) ions and their increased elimination from the body,
resulting in an overall negative balance if it is not adequately
compensated from food, and 2) lower volumes of red cells and some
other hematocrit changes (WHO 1980). Although recent studies
(Rakhmanin et al. 1989) did not find mutagenic or gonadotoxic effects
of distilled water, they did add new knowledge about decreased
secretion of tri-iodothyronine and aldosterone, increased secretion
of cortisol, morphological changes in the kidneys including a more
pronounced atrophy of glomeruli, and swollen vascular endothelium
limiting the blood flow. Reduced skeletal ossification was also found
in rat fetuses whose dams were given distilled water in a one-year
study. Apparently the reduced mineral intake from water was not
compensated by their diets.
Results of experiments in human volunteers evaluated by researchers
for the WHO report (1980) are in agreement with those reported in
animal experiments. Low-mineral water markedly: 1) increased diuresis
(almost by 20%, on average), body water volume, and serum sodium
concentrations, 2) decreased serum potassium concentration, and 3)
increased the elimination of sodium, potassium, chloride, calcium and
magnesium ions from the body. The basic mechanism of the effects of
water low in TDS (e.g. < 100 mg/l) on water and mineral
homeostasis was suggested as follows (WHO 1980). Low-mineral water
acts on osmoreceptors of the gastrointestinal tract, causing an
increased flow of sodium ions into the intestinal lumen and slight
reduction in osmotic pressure in the portal venous system with
subsequent enhanced release of sodium into the blood as an adaptation
response. This osmotic change in the blood plasma results in the
redistribution of body water; that is, there is an increase in the
total extracellular fluid volume and the transfer of water from
erythrocytes and interstitial fluid into the plasma and between
intracellular and interstitial fluids. In response to the changed
plasma volume, baroreceptors and volume receptors in the bloodstream
are activated, inducing a decrease in aldosterone release and thus an
increase in sodium elimination. Reactivity of the volume receptors in
the vessels may result in a decrease in ADH release and an enhanced
diuresis. The German Society for Nutrition reached similar
conclusions, warning the public against drinking distilled water
(DgfE 1993). This warning was published in response to the German
edition of The Shocking Truth About Water (Bragg and Bragg 1993),
whose authors recommended drinking distilled water instead of
"ordinary" drinking water. The Society in its position paper explains
that water in the human body always contains electrolytes (e.g.
potassium and sodium) at certain concentrations controlled by the
body. Water resorption by the intestinal epithelium is also enabled
by sodium transport. If distilled water is ingested, the intestine
has to add electrolytes to this water first, taking them from the
body reserves. Since the body never eliminates fluid in form of
"pure" water but always together with salts, adequate intake of
electrolytes must be ensured. Ingestion of distilled water leads to
the dilution of the electrolytes dissolved in the body water.
Inadequate body water redistribution between compartments may
compromise the function of vital organs. Symptoms at the very
beginning of this condition include tiredness, weakness and headache;
more severe symptoms are muscular cramps and impaired heart
rate.
=====================
The document also offers detailed analysis of health concerns in the
following categories:
*Direct effects on the intestinal mucous membrane, metabolism and
mineral homeostasis or other body functions.
*Practically zero calcium and magnesium intake.
*Low intake of other essential elements and microelements.
*Loss of calcium, magnesium and other essential elements in prepared
food.
*Possible increased dietary intake of toxic metals leached from water
pipe.
*Possible bacterial re-growth.
Again: www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutdemineralized.pdf
Aidan Sonoda
- Saint Louis, Missouri
I agree with the don't drink DI water opinion. Having first worked
for a laser mfg. that uses DI water to cool the excitation lamps
through a closed loop system that uses tap water or a chiller to cool
the DI water, I learned that customers would occasionally use the
supplied DI water for the laser to fill their chillers. In a matter
of months the heat exchangers on the chillers began leaking because
of the corrosive action of the DI water on the soldered heat
exchangers, (the laser has stainless heat exchanger and plastic
plumbing). There is reference to not using distilled or DI water in
boilers and automotive cooling systems for the same reason.
Now I work for a plating shop that uses hundreds of gallons per day
of DI water. Culligan comes 4-6 times per year to swap out the DI
water column. All of their tanks are stainless or fiberglass and all
the fittings are stainless or plastic.
Now think what happens when you use DI water in a coffee maker or an
aluminum pot or in copper piping, soldered.
There are many places that do not have quality drinking water so I
can understand looking for alternatives. As part of the Mass Water
Resources Authority area, we have one of the best tap water supplies
in the country.
I reject bottled, purified water because I believe our tap water is
better. There has been much bad press lately about the legitimacy of
bottled water, quality control, plastic bottles leaching harmful
chemicals, and the enormous amount of energy it takes to produce and
the enormous waste problems associated with the disposable bottles.
There is also evidence now that purified water, lacking the usual
potpourri of beneficial bacteria, and the continued abuse of anti
biotics, is creating serious conditions caused by the proliferation
of "bad" bacteria in the intestines.
Tap water contains the electrolytes, beneficial bacteria, pH buffers,
fluoride (if that's still used for strong teeth), that we need, and
is constantly monitored and maintained.
I'll take my water with some dirt and meat in it, Thank You.
Philip Canada
- Melrose, Massachusetts
"Unless I have passed to the other side and am
totally unaware of it, DI water is about the best tasting thing on
the planet. I am an avid athlete - yoga, pilates, half marathoner,
weight lifter, etc - and have been drinking about a half gallon to a
gallon of it for over six years now."
Water is tasteless, odorless, and colorless. If it's not, then
it probably has junk in it that should not be there. I have drank a
small amount of deionized water just to test this, and find it indeed
tasteless.
Oscar Yeager
- Albany, New York
I've read all the posts both pro and con for deionized water. I
have used deionized water for years in a coral reef tank. Corals are
much much much more sensitive to pollutants than most animals. The
water is purified using RO, Carbon and a DI cartridge. This water is
considered unstable since it is not buffered. The next step is to put
the buffers back in the water (alkalinity) and then add the salts to
simulate sea water. I want to use this pure water for drinking, so
what I would suggest is the purify the water to ensure all pollutants
are removed and then remineralize it. You can do this with calcium
and trace mineral cartridges. You can find the cartridges from
various websites, the one I'll use can be found from the spectrapure
website.
-Brent
Brent Wiedbusch
- Dublin, California
If DI water is known to leach minerals from and destroy metal
pipes I would be very concerned about drinking large volumes and
quantities over time. I would have to assume that it will also leach
minerals from tooth enamel.
BUT, as with anything, moderation is the key.
Grant Cleveland
- Waterford, Michigan opt
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May 15, 2009 I think the problem many are encountering is actually
defining the system. The fact that dH2O leeches minerals
from metal pipes doesn't really demonstrate its potential
effect on the body. This really shows its ability as a
solvent. Humans aren't made of metal. Water hydrates our
cells and carries waste from the body. If I consumed just
dH2O all day, my body would probably be depleted of many
nutrients. When we add diet to this system, it becomes very
different. The body takes in the needed nutrients and the
excess is carried away. I doubt dH2O would have a
significant effect on tooth enamel due to the presence of
normal flora. Plus, Coca-Cola is much more effective in
destroying tooth enamel. I drink them on a daily basis and I
have very healthy teeth. Davis S
August 28, 2009 The potential harm from drinking deionized water comes
from osmotic pressure which will draw minerals and
electrolytes from your blood back in to your intestines, for
this to be a concern you would have to drink a large amount
of DI water in a short duration. There are no long term side
effects from drinking pure water. Des Fuller
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