Letter 982

Gunsmith Bluing (cont'd)

++ To blue or not to blue that is the question. I have been blueing for about 9 months and have tried everything short of using black paint. (Just kidding) I have read everything there is to read on Parkerizing and blueing, and basically it's expensive. If you want to do it right it is anyways..... or if you want to pay someone to do it for you. My first try was the hand rub method... using birchwood casey products. First I degreased the parts, then the Rust and blue remover finally a good final cleaning on the bench grinder with the steel brush. Then I hand rubbed the Perma blue on and let it cure in gun oil. Final product okay (At the time beyond my wildest expectations) by todays standards.. acceptable at best. Next I tried the dunk method. I still clean the parts the same way, but I actually bought enough blueing solution to fill a little bath and dunk the parts in there and let them sit until the were blued. After which I once again cured them in gun oil.

Final product: better, a tad darker but still not Factory.

Next: The Boil and dunk method. Once again, cleaning the parts, as mentioned above but next I boiled them in a bath of water, epsom salt and baking soda [link is to product info at Amazon]. (This will remove whatever you thought you had removed but was still sticking on it . The Epson salt/Baking soda sets the boiling point a little higher : approx 225 degrees) Then the same dunk and cure method.

Final result: Nice Dark and deep blueing. When curing the pieces black residue did come off, but I was told this is normal. I am very happy with this blueing, but I am about to try the Copper sulphate/Iron Chloride/Hydrochloric acid/Nitric acid in Water solution. and per the advice of the Local Curio and Relic Gunshop I will cure in WD-40 [link is to product info at Amazon] this time. I want you to know I did have to build a couple of baths in PVC to accommodate all this, but I haven't spend the 125 $ I would have if I was to have a gun blued. One last word of advice.... You will have to look high and low to find Nitric Acid. I actually had a Neighbor (Aspiring Chemist) distill me a 90% pure batch of Nitric Acid. I will keep you all up to date on how this last blueing turns out. Michel M. Thiran - Tarpon Springs, Florida

To all the gunsmith's out there who just post a short "this is my trick and I won't tell you" My question is "why are you even here? I thought this was designed to help people to get a better understanding about this process and possibly try their hand at it.

To all the gunsmiths who have contributed advice and ideas..I applaud you. you care about actually helping people knowing that it probably won't make any negative impact on your business.

The main reason of this post is to impart a few tidbits..no I am not a gunsmith but I am not afraid to try my hand at new things. I have a 98K Mauser that HAD a bit of pits in the metal and to spend $200 for refinishing AND have to wait a few months due to the workload of the local smiths is not a sensible option on a gun I paid $140 for. First of all I agree that the polishing job is one of the most important steps in this process. I have tried cold blues without success (of course this was before I realized polishing was such a big deal) and am now trying Dicropan IM from Brownells . A setup is not too terribly expensive. I am using their Black Iron tank ($40) and two electric hot plates bought at a local store ($50 for both). You will all probably laugh but for polishing I used a Craftsman benchtop belt sander with fine (160 grit) belts and was able to remove almost all the pits except for a couple deeper ones. When using this method, remember to use a light touch and constantly move the piece so that the belts will not wear away too much metal and make it look uneven. Another thing to remember that there is a point on the belt that has no metal behind it which allows the belt to bend inward a bit with light pressure and this was used with great results on the barrel. This method required a minimum of time and effort and produced what I think are great results that resulted in a nice shiny even mostly pit free surface. I will let you know how using the dicropan im goes. Hope this helps. Also I do agree with the gunsmiths who have posted..if the firearm is a rare treasured item then by all means take it to the professional because it is probably easy to mess it up.

Michael A
- Port Orchard, Washington

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Ed. note: Thanks for the answers you provided, Michael! Please feel welcome to post any questions or answers you wish. But please don't make people whose postings you don't care for feel unwelcome. And NO!, this site was NOT designed to tempt untrained people to "try their hand" at toxic chemicals and 295 degree pots of concentrated lye!

I found it interesting reading about all the people trying to find info about blueing guns. I have tried to find info and places to order chemicals to blue guns for about 2 years. The ones I have found and contacted haven't responded. I finally found a place called Shooter Solutions that sells parkerizing kits. I ordered one of their Dark charcoal parkerizing kits it was very easy to use just clean your piece and dilute the parkerizing solution with proper amount of water and heat to 200 degrees F and submerge part for about 20 min. or so or until sol stops fizzing take part out rinse with hot water and oil. Very good instructions are included with kit. The cost for one kit is only about $40.00 I have so far parkerized 4 long guns and they turned out to be a beautiful dark gray charcoal almost black color which is as tough as original military or more and it doesn't have any smell at all. I still have enough sol left to do several more long guns from the one kit I ordered. The prep before the process was very easy also, all I did was sandblast with 280 grit corundum and rub smooth with Scotch Brite pads. A very easy, cheap and great product if you want a really tough parkerized finish.I like this finish better than bluing on gun for use as hunting guns.And the best part of all this is very safe and the chemicals are a lot less hazardous than any thing else I have found.

Jerry Hoxit
- Brevard, N.C. USA

I came across this site some time ago and have been browsing it for letters on slow rust blueing. I want to use this process on some custom Mauser rifles that I am building, in stead of having them hot blued.

I cannot get hold of the ready to use solutions, supplied by Brownell's amongst others, because US companies don't ship chemicals to Europe and these solutions are not available over here.

I am not a chemist, but have access to a lot of chemicals since I am a teacher in a technical school.

I would appreciate some proven recipes and "how to do this" for rust blue solutions that give a dark, black, sustainable appearance and that can be mixed and processed at home.

Hope to get some answers soon!

Marcel ten Thije
home gunsmith - Borculo, Netherlands

Wow, and I just went to my local sporting goods store and bought a 3 step gun blue kit for 12 bucks. I think it worked great and all of my household pets are still alive.
While reading the questions and responses i see basically the same exchanges. those who don't know how dangerous this stuff really is as well as the responses from people who actually have a clue as to the potential hazards involved. I Being one of those people that always tries to do it myself and for some reason I usually succeed.
I thank all of the people who know for telling all of us who don't know, to stay away from the field of chemistry. Unless we know where to shop for the stuff we probably shouldn't be messin with it.
GREAT SITE!
have an awesome day!

Eric Russell Kozak
- Youngsville, North Carolina

In response to the "editor's note" to post of April ., Mercury compounds are illegal in the US, www.al-chymista.com will sell 25 grams Mercury Chloride for 6.50 USD.
This may be different from near 6 years ago.

What I am trying to duplicate is a bluing solution I had made at a local apothecary's shop, aka, druggist, 48 years ago, recipe as follows:
Sodium Nitrate 7.5 grams
Potassium Nitrate 7.5 grams
Mercury Chloride 15 grams
Potassium Chlorate 15 grams
Sweet Spirit of Nitre 15 grams
Distilled Water 10 ounces

At www.al-chymist.com ,Mercury Chloride, 25 grams, 6.50
Sodium Nitrate, 1# 4.00
Potassium Nitrate 1# 8.00

Sweet Spirit of Nitre is Nitric acid, I assume 70%.

Potassium Chlorate, from another site, 250 grams, 13.10, has to be available at a lower price, just haven't found it, 17 times what's needed, and the pound quantities, forever stock

My pint bottle, brown glass, has evaporated to the last inch and a half, don't know if I have lost just the water, can add more distilled, get back to 8 ounces or so.

Have tanks welded up for me 35 years ago, never used them.

Cheers,

George Matovich
- Rillton, PA, USA

Ed. note: We didn't exactly say mercury compounds were illegal, George, we said they might be hard to get because they are toxic. Thanks for sourcing it for us.

Is anyone interested in continuing this thread?

Hi,
I'm new here and have been reading through these posts. I can probably answer or direct folks to the answers of most of these questions.
Thanks

Tim Northcutt
- Austin, Texas

Ed. note: the thread remains active and supported, Tim. Please add whatever comments and answer whatever questions you wish.

+++++++ I was goggling for blue wonder [Ed. note: see ---->] and found this site. I have to say it's been a lot of interesting reading. I don't even like reading about this sort of stuff :) sorry. Just had to say for about the past six or seven years now I sit at my computer doing what I love (making graphics) while my husband sits just as long rubbing his guns. Rubbing hours upon hours. We have both found what keeps us content. That is a good thing.

Cathy Sansone
- Ennis, Texas

+++++++ can anyone tell me the difference between gun blue #5 or #7, as opposed to gun blue #9. i just can't seem to find it anywhere. yvette barron bass pro - bossier city, la +++++++ I don't think there is an industry-wide meaning or distinction to such numbers, Yvette. I think it's just individual brand names like the model numbers of individual automobiles. Of the #7's, I prefer Jack Daniels' old #7 :-) Ted Mooney, P.E.  finishing.com Brick, New Jersey part   1    2    3