Letter 15665

DI Water undrinkable? [Idaho] 

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I read some responses on here to "what are the differences between DI Water and distilled water. Good question? The reason I ask is that we use DI Water for cleaning parts on the Ion Implanters (semi-conductor field). Why not regular water or distilled? Also I have been told not to drink DI Water? Why? We drank distilled water (I believe) when I was on a US Submarine. What is the difference and why can't I drink DI Water?

Dan MacLellan
semiconductors - Twin Falls, ID, USA

Distilled water is made by boiling water until it turns to steam or water vapor, and then condensing that steam or water vapor back to water. The theory is that any contaminant that was in the original water will not vaporize and become part of the steam, but will remain behind as a residue. This is true of general dirt, but maybe not true of volatile organic compounds in the water.

In the deionizing process, the contaminated water passes through two columns full of ion exchange media, one of which is saturated with sulfuric acid, the other sodium hydroxide. The H+ from the sulfuric acid replaces any cation contaminants in the water, while the OH- from the sodium hydroxide replaces any anions.

Some people feel that deionized water (especially if a mixed bed deionizer was used) is so pure that it is very aggressive and unsafe to drink. Others feel that concern is silly. For my part, I wouldn't be comfortable drinking water that comes out of a tube that was recently filled with liquid caustic or concentrated sulfuric acid.

Ted Mooney, P.E.  finishing.com Brick, New Jersey

You can drink it, without the slightest worry. Search the archives of this site - the matter has been clearly explained.

Bill Reynolds    consultant metallurgist Ballarat, Victoria, Australia

I would be unhappy drinking either de-ionised water or distilled water. As Ted says, de-ionised water is made by passing it through ion exchange columns, one of which contains sodium hydroxide. This can enrich the water with sodium ions and this is bad news if you are health conscious. Too much sodium in your diet is definitely not a good idea -it can lead to high blood pressure and other associated problems. This is why you can buy low sodium salt, which is actually potassium chloride. As far as distilled water is concerned, again as Ted says, it is made by boiling out the salts. What you need to remember is that water is a damn good solvent, especially for salts, so if it is free of any dissolved salts, it will dissolve anything it comes into contact with. Consequently, when you put distilled water in your mouth, it will start to dissolve the minerals in your teeth and I am sure you dentist will not recommend this. If you put a little bit of distilled water on our tongue, you may feel the salts being dissolved from it - it tingles! I cannot answer for submariners because I have never been in the navy, but I would hope they would not use pure distilled water to drink - perhaps they doped it with bromide!?.

Trevor Crichton R&D practical scientist - UK

I do not agree with Mr. Reynolds on this matter. Deionized water is not safe to drink. Due to the purity of the water and the lack of minerals, DI is a relatively strong solvent. As such, when ingested, a condition called "osmotic shock" may occur. This condition occurs as a result of the DI water removing minerals and other elements from the cells in the body more rapidly that the cell walls can stand. The result is ruptured cells and internal bleeding. Though the cases are few and far between, there have been documented cases.

Best of Luck,

Ira Donovan, M.S.F. Ed. note: Master Surface Finisher is NASF's highest certification level.  Burns & McDonnell    Kansas City, Missouri

The following is cut from a letter in the archives of this site. I think it explains the situation very well.

QUOTE
As for the relative potability of the pure waters, the difference in waters is very small. There is no adverse health affect from drinking distilled or deionized water. Deionized water tastes kind of bland & somewhat insipid, and distilled water has no taste at all. Some people get used to these qualities & drink them all the time. In either case, the taste is improved by aeration--if you shake the pure waters up with some air, the taste improves. The taste of any given water is largely imparted by the various mineral components; many of the drinking waters on the market today are, in fact, purified tap water to which minerals have been added (Avalon, etc). By law, drinking waters can not have more than 1000 parts per million of dissolved solids, so when you get down to the analysis of most available waters, there really isn't much difference between tap water, mineral water, or purified waters (no nutritional difference -->at all<-- between any of them!) As far as the health issue is concerned, it is true, water is hypotonic to cells & will destroy them. However, tap water is also hypotonic to cells. Your skin & stomach & intestinal linings are perfectly suited for thriving in and processing water. If you were to inject water into your blood, cells would die. If you cut your skin & wash the wound, the exposed cells do die. Fortunately, the fats that lyse out of the exposed wound quickly makes the wound less susceptible to water damage. Any ultrapure water you drink will quickly dissolve some saliva from your mouth--as soon as it has dissolved few parts per million of any substance, it is no longer ultrapure anyway. If it is a concern & all you have to drink is ultrapure water, you can stir the water with a metal stainless spoon or your finger first & it will magically transform itself from ultrapure water to just water.
END OF QUOTE

Bill Reynolds    consultant metallurgist Ballarat, Victoria, Australia

What happens if one drops a copper iridium coin in the ultra pure water.. does the person cease functioning?? Would one have to then wrap oneself in carbon paper to get moving again??

Marc Green anodizer - Boise, ID, USA

All righty then.
Dangerous: Thomas Baker, Trevor Crichton, Ira Donovan, Michael Majancsik, Tim Neveau, James Totter.
Harmless: John Holroyd, Anand Jayaraj, Bill Reynolds, Dale Woika
Clueless: Ted Mooney.

Ted Mooney, P.E. 
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey

I completely concur with Ira in that "the DI water removing minerals and other elements from the cells in the body." Bluntly, depending on the size of the individual, drinking over a certain volume of DI water causes diarrhea and stomach cramping. : (

Mary Cera
- Oklahoma City, OK, USA

I nominate Marc Green for the award. Doesn't matter what water you start with or what you want to finish with, the coin will fix it!!!

Trevor Crichton R&D practical scientist - UK

Ted,

You forgot one, Smart-Alec: Marc Green

Marc Green anodizer - Boise, ID, USA

Let me see - the opinions of the people that are actually water experts say no, and material scientist and the like say its fine.

I say flip the copper iridium coin and pick a side. Me, I'm going the way of safety. I mean, I only have about 200 signs in our inventory that say "Deionized Water - DO NOT DRINK" and by LAW in all 50 states, they have to be posted. Either this is cruel joke on my clients or someone knows what some of others of us do. But hey, maybe life is different down under. I mean, your little whirlpools that occur when you flush the loo go in the wrong damned direction, so maybe your DI water is safe to consume.

p.s. Hey Bill, keep on drinking that DI water and we can watch Darwinian Theory in real time. Me, I know DI water can make for a really crummy beer, and tap water makes perfectly wonderful beer. Go figure...

Tom Baker
wastewater treatment specialist - Warminster, PA

Those who claim D.I. water is dangerous are not all water experts, Tom, nor does the other side lack water experts and people with medical experience.

It is dangerous to drink ANY industrial water because it probably is not protected by backflow preventors, will probably have no germ-killing chlorine, and may be a breeding place for bacteria; UV systems are often needed to keep DI water free of blooms. So the "Do Not Drink" signs are completely appropriate, but their presence doesn't necessarily imply that the authorities concur that drinking D.I. water will explode a dangerous number of cell walls.

And these kinds of laws rarely have science on their side anyway. A few years ago it became illegal in NYC for restaurants and butchers to use wooden cutting boards because the authorities "knew" the cracks and gouges would accumulate germs and toxins. Then, after all the old world chefs of the world's greatest city were stripped of their heirloom cutting boards and compelled to switch to plastic boards and "stop selfishly risking the public health for their vanity", only then was it time to actually test the premise; and only then was it recognized that plastic, being an oleophillic surface unlike wood, did not clean up nearly as readily as wood, was actually not safer than wood, and well may be a far more dangerous breeding ground.

Obey the law, post the signs, but I'd look for documented animal tests before I'd believe that deionized water causes these osmotic catastrophes.

Ted Mooney, P.E. 
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey

Ok... now that I'm done laughing at Thomas' reply (with ya.. not at ya, buddy) I have to put my 2 cents in...I wouldn't drink anything that will corrode stainless steel....nuff said.

Marc Green anodizer - Boise, ID, USA

I read the discussion regarding the safety of drinking RO/DI water, which stimulated my question. I have an RO/DI unit in my garage to make water for my reef tank. The ice maker and drinking water dispenser in my fridge already has a feed line from the cold water pipe on the hot water heater which runs down the wall directly behind my tank. I was wondering if it would be safe to "T" into the ice maker feed line from the RO/DI unit to supply both the sump under the reef tank for top off water and supply the ice maker/drinking water dispenser. The water that enters the refrigerator goes through an inline carbon filter before it enters the refrigerator/freezer. Would carbon filtration Re-Ionize the water this way and make it safe to drink?

Scott M. Breitenbruck
reef aquarium hobbyist - Winter Park, FL, USA

Hi people,

I read an article in New Scientist some time back about ice spikes, including how to make your own. Empty your freezer, and fill your ice cube tray with distilled water, and they grow as the surface freezes. Needs to be really clean water. So I went to buy distilled water, and could only get DI water. My ice spikes didn't work, but from now on, I will be eating DI ice-cubes. The bottle from which the water came says "Warning: Not to be taken." There is no poisons warning, health information, MSDS notes or anything anyplace on the bottle. I am quite sure that it is not regulated as a food product, and therefore cannot be sold as such, but for AU$1.39 for 2 Litres, it is much cheaper than spring water. I'll let you know if any adverse effects arise.

Michael Smith
- Sydney, NSW, Australia

MAN, HASN'T ANY ONE OF YOU EXPERTS HEARD OF TRIHALOMETHANES? IT IS A KNOWN CANCER CAUSING AGENT FOUND IN ALL MUNICIPAL WATER SUPPLIES WHERE CHLORINE AND ORGANIC MATERIAL CO-EXIST (LITERALLY ALL TAP WATERS!) IF YOU WANT TO CHOOSE THAT OVER STEAM DISTILLED OR DI WATER, BE MY GUEST! I HAVE BEEN SELLING AND DRINKING STEAM DISTILLED WATER FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS - I JUST HAVEN'T FOUND A GOOD USE FOR CHLORINE IN THE BODY - MAYBE OK IN A POOL OR MY TOILET!!!

BOB GRANDCHAMP
- THOUSAND OAKS,CA. USA

I'm sure that every water expert is familiar with the hazardous reactants that can be produced when water is chlorinated, Bob.

The thing is, every process and every decision has both advantages and disadvantages. Comparing the tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of lives directly saved worldwide by the introduction of widespread chlorination of water against the abstract & statistical dangers of chlorination byproducts, you're right: virtually every single municipal water supply which looked at this balance chose to chlorinate.

Nothing wrong with bottled water (except perhaps for the abstract & statistical dangers associated with having to transport it), but it's not a substitute for chlorination of municipal water supplies. You don't wash your dishes in bottled water, do you? If not, I hope you use chlorinated water rather than unchlorinated water, which could spread cholera and other fatal diseases.

Ted Mooney, P.E. 
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey

It is well understood that DI or Distilled water is not safe for drinking. The REVERSE OSMOSIS drinking water also may or may not be safe. Since it reduces the TDS to a very low level of 30-40 mg/litre, it may again be hungry water extracting salts from the cells of body. So the question is what is the safe limit of TDS IN WATER for drinking purpose?

S K RAJYA
- Delhi, India

I don't know how you can say "it is well understood" after reading this letter, Rayja, wherein a number of knowledgeable people utterly deny it, and those who support it have not supplied documentation. Again, I don't know whether it's truly harmful or a ludicrous old wives tale -- but I do know that it is not 'well understood' :-)

To try to go on from this qualitative point of whether it is harmful and try to quantify it into how many ppm of TDS is necessary for safety doesn't seem to be warranted.

Ted Mooney, P.E. 
finishing.com
Brick, New Jersey

I have an RO filter (with an optional DI unit) at home for drinking, cooking, and for the icemaker. It has a separate spigot for 0 ppm DI water. Having a background in biochemistry/biomedical research, I find this thread truly interesting.

I've never seen a sign in research labs that says, "Caution, Deionized water, DO NOT DRINK", but I probably wouldn't drink water from a lab where chemicals (some dangerous) are being mixed. -Biomedical researchers just walk over to the rented water cooler/dispenser to have a drink, and I imagine the bottled water is reverse osmosis combined with multiple stage carbon filtering and ozone or uv sterilization, and has a content of 6-12 ppm solute (6-12 mg/liter dissolved salts).

Ion exchange media that is used to make DI water from RO water, it will remove all solute, and will leave +H & -OH ions, yes. But they should combine (& neutralize each other) to form a molecule of water. I believe food grade DI resin should be harmless, as it would be free of any chemical impurities.

Doing a search on the AMA, (American Medical Association, www.ama-assn.org), or the ADA, (American Dental Association, www.ada.org), there seem to be no references to warnings re: de-mineralized of de-ionized water. The ADA has a page re: recommendations to use fluoridated demineralized/deionized water to make up a bottle of baby formula, but that's about all.

My wife is a dentist. She said, "Deionized water might be dangerous? Really?"

I would agree that drinking "unbuffered" de-mineralized water when you really needing hydration, may cause absorption & dehydration problems (such as when you're working up a sweat from running a race). In this case, your body needs electrolytes for proper hydration. So, add a sport drink powder to your DI or RO water. Eh, Voila!

Pure water (de-ionized or de-mineralized) is probably (for the most part) less harmful to a person than soda pop, and doesn't have trace amounts of harmful chemicals that bottled water drinkers are wanting to avoid.

RO/DI water is the purest form of water that a household or modern submariner (or Space Shuttle Astronaut--guess where they get their water!) can obtain.

If you're worried that unbuffered water will kill cells for some reason, water filter companies sell an inexpensive "re-mineralization" cartridge that can be added to your RO or DI unit. Inside is a sand like media, similar to crushed coral skeleton. It should buffer & replenish your water with desirable minerals, and balance any pH issue you may be worried about.

I am not a professional water quality specialist. I'd be interested to see some medical/scientific documentation on the subject. The drinking water market is big $$, and accompanied by much marketing propaganda from more than one side. Bottled water is cheap to make, yet sometimes costs as much as fruit juice or gasoline.

2 cents.

Mohri Barizo
- Meridian, ID

Dasani bottled water is deionized water, filtered with RO/DI. It measures 0 ppm solutes.

Mohri Barizo
- Meridian, ID

Hallo every one. I have the RO/DI system to make water for my reef tank.
I am planning to take 50 gal tank and make my own drinking water .According to Dr. Natasha Campbell Mc-Bridge , the best water has minerals and bacteria in it. I always knew not to ad shells to fresh water fish tank because it razes the water hardness ,so I wan to put there some shells for the minerals leeching in to water ,and teaspoon of Himalayan salt. But how to handle the bacteria part? I think to live it along.

Jerry Szal
- NY River , LI

Ok, to clear this up. I have done extensive research on the use of RO, RO/DI, Distilled, and tap water. According to everything I have found, the following is true:

DI water in manufacturing facilities usually have chemicals added to prevent bacteria formation and pipe corrosion. Therefore, that is why there are "Do Not Drink" signs.

RO water is completely save with no effects. It can be used without any concerns.

DI and Distilled water do have some concerns. The "pure" water is safe. However, it should not be an only means of hydration. It does "leech" minerals (salts, etc..) from the body which is bad over a long term. Most people do not drink only water. They will have tea, coffee, sodas, etc.. that can replenish those minerals (as well as foods). You cannot live on DI/Distilled water alone, but you can drink it as long is it is not the only water you drink.

Tap water has many nutrients added, and is not harmful in any way. It provides fluoride for the teeth, but with any type of water, you actually can get water poisoning (hyperhydration) if you drink too much of any type of water because it leeches the electrolytes from your body.

Hope this helps

Skaife Jones
- Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

As a physiologist/biomedical researcher, I must say the last post is interesting, but written by an individual with a "little bit of information".

Tap water may contain trace elements that are undesirable for long term human consumption, so many people are turning towards RO or even RO/DI water for drinking. Dasani bottled water is an example RO/DI water.

Pure water, such as deionized water, does not contain these tap water contaminants, such as lead, arsenic, or chloramine compounds. It does not contain anything. It is also a fallacy that DI water will "leech" minerals from a person's body.

DI water may not be the best liquid to drink when maximum absorption is needed, as one may need some electrolytes (salts) to aid in absorption, but DI water will not hurt you, unless you're drowning in it.

Hyperhydration (or water poisoning) can only occur under very extreme conditions, such as drinking 5 gallons of water in a day.

David McConnell
hobbyist - San Diego, CA

Well, Well. This is an interesting conversation that I can put to rest.....

I am not a water guy, I am not a scientist or and engineer or do I claim to know more than anyone else on this site.

I worked in the Chemlab Clean Room in Lagrange GA of a major company about 8~9 years ago. Every time we came to work we had to put on a ridiculous clean room suite that covered us from head to toe including a veil for our neck and goggles. The bad part was when it was time to take a break or go to the bathroom in the 10 minutes they allowed, it would take us 7~8 minutes to completely disrobe and to put the dang thing back on when we came back from break. this left us 2 minutes to use the bathroom and to get a drink.

After doing this for my first week I said forget it and I decided to just have a drink from the DI system. I thought, what could it hurt, it's just water??? Right?

I drank about 2 glasses of it over the course 2 hours and about 30 minutes before the lab closed, I started to get very sick at my stomach. I was walked to the bathroom by my supervisor and I threw up blood all over the floor. i started to produce Flu Like symptoms after a bit and I got very weak. They called an ambulance and took me to the hospital. After a 8 hour stay in the ER, I was informed that Drinking De-Ionized water caused this.

It turns out if you have ulcers in your stomach that drinking DI water will make you Really, Really sick.

I cant speak for those that don't have Ulcers as to what it would do, But I say don't drink the stuff. If water contacting blood can cause these types of problems, I would not drink It!!

Please also keep in mind that this was a chemlabs DI system and it was top notch. However they were lacking, the "Do Not Drink DI Water" Signs that are Federally Regulated.

The lab got a good fine for that one!! We found the sign behind the DI unit the next day covered in Dust.

Enough Said, you can stop the argument now.

matt

Matt Morman
- LaGrange GA

I have been reading the arguements here. For those of you who do not believe in drinking DI water, what do you think is in every canned or bottled beverage you drink ?There may be a significant difference in individual water treatment systems, but like anything else, it depends upon the due diligence of the owner / operators.

At the very least bottling plants for beer and soda use acid / base water treatment.

Chlorinated water ? Would you prefer cholera, or dysentary ? More soldiers died in war from disease ( mostly from foul water ) than fromn wounds.

As for the gentleman with the ulcers, do you know that several large American drug marketing companies spent millions of dollars trying to dicredit the two Australian doctors who proved that a simple course of antibiotic treatment would cure ulcers ? When large amounts of money are involved, some people don't care who they hurt, do they ?

John Biava
- Rockford, Illinois, USA

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