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Letter 12044 Asking for formula for hydrochloric acid to strip motorcycle parts+ I am trying to strip my motorcycle parts down that have been poorly chrome-plated. One fellow at a restoration shop said I could eat it off best with hydrocloric acid. I asked him how to make it and he wasn't sure. Can anybody help me with my question? steve carson
+ Dude, You dont just "make" hydrochloric acid.. you buy it. Secondly.. its EXTREMELY nasty stuff. Thirdly (if thats a word)..you would end up with a heavy metal acidic hazardous waste that you would need to dispose of properly. I guess, what I'm saying is..if you want the chrome chemically stripped off, please send it to a professional. There may be other, mechanical, safer ways of removing chrome off of a scooter, go to the search page, as I'm sure I've seen others ask a similiar question.
+ First things first - get a new guy for the restoration. If he can't tell you that hydrochloric acid (chemical symbol HCl) is also muriatic acid (available at any hardware store - although not as strong as industrial grade HCl) then I might wonder about his other plating abilities. That said, it is best to let the plating shops do this type of work since they are equipped to handle the waste generated from the stripping process and can immediately replate the parts to your liking. Hope this helps. Dan Brewer
+ Hydrochloric acid (HCl) is not a mixture, Steve, it's a compound. So your question is similar to asking how to make water. You can make a small quantity of hydrochloric acid on a laboratory scale from ingrediants like sulfuric acid and salt -- but then you'd need to ask how to make sulfuric acid. In reality you buy hydrochloric acid not make it. But are you sure you won't ruin your parts? What will you do with the parts after the chrome is gone -- how would you get the nickel off? If the parts were poorly plated, the shop which plated them should fix them.
+ Steve, I feel real sorry for you. All these experts, which is what they ARE ... giving you very good but expensive advice. And if you become a finishing.com addict, you'll notice that quite a few of the responders need to have dogs or dawgs with them! If you have just a few small parts then, as the man said, go to the Hardware store and get a small bottle of Muriatic acid. Sometimes it's called toilet bowl cleaner or brick cleaner. The (safety) instructions are on the bottle or should be. Get a small paint brush and a plastic bowl. Drip in a small amount of that acid. Brush the 'parts' with the acid. Then when (if!) the chrome has disappeared, flush rinse. Dump the waste/excess acid. If clean, back into the bottle. If not, drop in some baking soda (you should have some in the frig). This will neutralize the acid which you can then safely dispose down the sink. Mind you, the chrome glitter is just an ultra thin surface veneer. Under the chrome should be nickel and behind that copper (for bonding to the steel) ... That's what good platers do ...
+ Ted and Freeman, Awhile ago (think back to the Hypothetical Dead Fish saga), Ted thought that there was perhaps a teacher cowering in front of Freeemans car..now I'm beginning to think it was a poor puppy dog!!!! Not knowing a whole heck of a lot about chrome removal, I assumed he really needed HCL to remove everything, including the strikes. And that the weaker Muriatic acid wasnt strong enough. As far as just dumping the residue down the sink..I guess I get a little flustered knowing that all the accumulated household hazardous wastes in the country (paints, thinners, oils, ect..that normally just get dumped down the drain, or on the ground)probably does more harm to the environment then the industrial hazardous waste (which is normally properly disposed of). Marc Green AND his best buddy, Rusty
+ But which dog is the most lovable?
+ Freeman, What an excellent piece of advise you lended to Steve! I can just imagine the look on his face when he dumps about a half a pound of baking soda into the spent HCl/metal ion solution and it burps a load of carbon dioxide and non-reacted hydrogen chloride onto his garage floor (not to mention, his pants). I'm sure he is well versed in pH measurement, neutralization, heavy metal ion precipitation and the like; so he will, no doubt, perform the aforementioned operation with grace and skill. Comedy Central is always looking for talent; maybe you missed your calling! (LOL). It IS, albeit, kind of interesting that there are alot of dog pictures here! Just giving you a hard time, Freeman! Talk to you later.
Randall Fowler
+ Fellow finishers: I ask you to ponder this question...which dog is more lovable, AND can hunt?????? And, Randall...you took the words right out of my mouth!!!
+ You can't judge a book by its cover, Tom, so I can't answer your question. But I think I prefer beef to either of them.
+ Soooooo...fellow finishers..are we to assume Ted has a pet cow in his backyard?
+ Hi Steve ... and also a Hi to all the dawg lovers. A few pointers. I said mix some alkali with the spent acid, well, that was assuming you had some chemistry knowledge because ideally you DON'T ... Ideally you get a pail of water, dump some alkali (sodium bicarbonate) in it, then pour in the 'acid'... and you should get a 'fizz' reaction which stops once the acid is neutralized. Then pour it down the drain. And a pointer to all those dawg lovers ... muriatic and HCl are the SAME damn thing. Didn't good ole Joseph Priestly discover this acid by mixing water with an HCl gas and gave it the name of MURIATIC based on the latin word MURIA meaning brine. In the past other people have called this acid spiritus salis or marine acid. No difference AT ALL. In short, muriatic is the olde name for hydrochloric. OK? Do I now get a few wags? (from the dawgs I mean, not from the wags) Freeman Newton
+ The last person who neutralized acid that way was Joe Priestly himself. If you do it that way, you will get acid mist, and won't know what the ending pH is, so you will probably violate the sewerage treatment rules for your area, and it is not too safe, in any case.
+ Hey Marc, I figured you'd get a kick out of that one, judging from your initial response to Freeman. Thanks. Which dog is the most loveable? HMMMMMMMMM, let's see: I had a Cocker Spaniel for 11 years; smartest dog I've ever owned. But then, again, my parents own one like Tom's. I believe mom calls it her little "Shitsu" (can I even print that on this site?). So I guess I'll have to side with Ted in this case: Ribeye Rules! (hee..hee..hee). Wow, one guy writes in to ask about the formulation of hydrochloric acid, and the chat ends up talking about dogs...gotta love it! Anyway, Ted Mooney, Tom Pullizzi, Marc Greene, and, yes, Freeman Newton: you folks have a very Merry Christmas and a most profitable new year. It's a pleasure chatting with you guys. Randy Fowler
+ First of all.. Merry Christmas to all at Finishing.com, and all that participate in this forum. I hope I'm not the only one in here taking Christmas eve off!! Now.. secondly..on to technical matters.. as I'd like some clarification. I honestly cant believe that the Muriatic acid you buy in the store for cleaning concrete, ect..) is of the same strength as the laboratory grade HCL that I buy for my lab in order to do some testing requirements per an Applied Materials spec. I dont even want to open the bottle without gloves, and a respirator, as the gas is noxious, and choking. Am I wrong in assuming that Muriatic acid is a "watered down" version of HCL? Now Thirdly..after consulting Rusty..he too is a beef, ribeye lover..so..I guess..with a little hesitation, I will concede that Ted is right....sigh,,, but I just cant imagine "Bessy the cow" snuggling at my feet at the end of my bed everynight!!! Merry Christmas to all, Marc and Rusty
+ Hey Dawgs! Do yer like supportin' yer master ... an' sometimes bein' stuffed an' shown off? An' when yer master makes rude komments (like ter me, fer exampel) give him a good byte. He sure deserves it. An'sum think that haich sea ell ain't the same as muri-atic! No wonder they needs dawgs. I usta hav' a dawg once. Short haired dax. It were a TRUE huntin' dawg... uster go inter th' woods fer 2 weeks all by hitself an' HUNT ... the dam and sire wer' pig hunters or Wildschweinh¸nde as the Krauts called 'em. An' Marc Green is rong. That ain't no cow in Ted's backyard. That's th'sea. Fish maybe but he'd sure look real outer plaice holdin' up a DAWGFISH! You canis lovers, you have a good year, d'yer hear! Freeman Newton
+ I am splitting my sides, laughing at that last entry from Freeman! Y'all 'r' a dang funny ol' boy, there, Newton! That was great. Marc, on the subject of Muriatic vs. Hydrochloric: Muriatic acid, if I remember correctly from the University of California, is a biproduct of the manufacture of iron chloride. It is supposedly passed through qualitative filtration before "bottling" for retail. It has an 18 - 20 degree baume "gravity", while the purer HCl's (Printed Circuit Grade, etc.) are measured at about 22 degrees baume. Muriatic, as one would assume, also contains dissolved compounds of iron. A 5 mL sample of 50v/v% Muriatic is titrated to the phenolphthalein endpoint with approx. 25 mL of Normal sodium hydroxide solution. 27.5 mL of 1N NaOH are required to achieve the endpoint with a 5 mL sample of 50v/v% PC Grade (22Be) HCl. Randy Fowler
+ Thanks for the clarification, Randall. And to think..all the poor guy wanted to know, was how to remove the chrome off his scooter!!! Hey Ted...perhaps we need a sub-directory on the site for just plain old BS!!!
++ Gosh I know it must be late and I know I have had too much of that Christmas Scotch I get once a year from a customer because I'm reading and responding to this letter. First of all my dog is the winner, sorry Tom, I'll forward a photo labeled as me on future replys. Second; all the advice on the neturalization of HCl with baking soda is fine but obmits that only the pH will change in this possible hot and violent reaction. The chrome will still be there and in the Hexavalent state. A know cancer causing agent. Gosh Jon Quirt
++ Jon, Jon, Jon, Hydrochloric acid does not raise Cr+/- to it's hexavalent state. It raises it to it's di and/or trivalent state. Cr+/-requires an active (unstable) oxidizing agent, i.e.: sodium peroxide, with heat, to be raised to it's hexavalent state. The oxygen in the ambient water (which is part of liquid HCl) would not be enough to raise the atomic Cr to CrVI. OK, Steve, just to be on the "safe" side, you will need to titrate the waste material in question against 0.1N sodium thiosulfate, just to see how much (if any) CrVI is in it, then calculate the ratio of sodium metabisulfite to ionic Cr+, then multiply that ratio by the gram equivalent mass concentration of CrVI to determine the mass of Na2S205 to add. Then you will have to pass the entire volume of waste material through quantitative filtration, to isolate the CrOH3, before introducing the remaining liquid material to the waste stream. How's that, Jon? (hee...hee...hee...) I love this website! Randy Fowler
++ Randall..I'm sure the "fellow at the restoration shop" will have all the necessary titrants and ph meter, and of course.. the filtration equipment that poor Steve (whom only wanted a little advice) will need. Do you think if we work hard enough that we can keep this thread alive till 2003? And Jon.. I've been anxiously awaiting to see the "hands down" winner of the pooch contest. Perhaps you are a little intimidated by the competition?
++ Randall, Review your chem books and the lowest energy state of chrome. It is different from most, the electrons just love to ruin off. Another hint Cr III is green. Perhaps disolve a bunch of chrome into HCL, then raise the pH to 9.3 (lowest solubilty) Got any ppt.? No? No kidding. Jon Quirt
++ Hey Dawgs, Am gettin' a trifled hupset with all them damn dawg pikters I keeps seein'. (Heck, I've seen better dawgs, too!) Did yer kno that in Korea th' fayvreet dish is dawg meat ... with some kat appertizers, too. I ain't lyin'. Them those finishing.com dawgs sure look too well fed, eh? Yummy food in Korea! Maybe you're beein' fattened up. Hope not! Freeman Newton
++ ATTENTION! THIS LETTER MARKS THE END OF THE FASCINATING, IF SOMEWHAT DISGUSTING, REPARTEE ABOUT DOGS. Thank you for your consideration and, Sincerely,
++ OK, Mr. Quirt (smart alec), I will break out my general chemistry textbooks and review the nature of the element in question. Yes, I know that CrIII is (blueish) green; yes I know that CrVI is goldish orange. I am also aware that chromium chloride salt is as aforementioned. And, lastly, I know that the Cr orbital electron "acceptance" of influences is different than other atoms. I don't remember, albeit, that any of the previous entries (except yours)mentioned color. Could it be that you are now an active member in assuring that this "Entry #12044" remains active until 2003, as Marc wondered? Marc, when I listed (to poor Steve) the necessary steps for removing Chromium from his HCl liquid material, I was (as Rush Limbaugh calls it) "...illustrating absurdity by being absurd". OK, back to filling out my TURP reports for 2001! Talk to you guys later! Randy Fowler
++ Hmm. I know that alkaline stripping (removal of chrome in electrified caustic solution) generates hexavalent chrome. In fact, electrocleaning tanks in which chrome is removed deliberately or accidentally often get a bright yellow color, like lemon icing, as opposed to the usual amber color of hex chrome. But in as much as commercial hydrochloric acid is usually an amberish color anyway, I don't know that it's color will reveal the state of any chromium dissolved in it. Such a common and important question, and so much speculation! Does anybody *know*for*sure* whether stripping in hydrochloric acid generates hex chrome
++ Ahhh...Randall.. do you not recognize sarcasm when you see it? I surely recognized yours!!! Now.. on to Teds comments..First of all, the HCL that I purchase is always clear in color, I've never seen it shaded at all. Does the actual stripping process generate hex chrome..or is it just removing the alreading existing hex chrome, me thinks it would be the latter? Not being too familiar with chrome plating..is it not a hex chrome solution that is used? If it is a tri-chrome solution does the addition of acids or bases somehow change it to a hex? Or does the addition of a current (as Ted mentioned) somehow play into the change? Sorry guys.. my chemistry knowledge probably isnt as vast as you'alls. Now.. onto more important manners..Freeman..oh Freeman.. what am I gonna do with you. Them thar dawgs is meant for huntin, and companionship..NOT for eatin (now.. CATS..thats fine..bon-appitite) And Tom...the end of the dog commentary cant be completed until Jon gets around to attach a pic of his pooch. But Tom.. it is the NFL playoff season.. have you ever considered using your pooch for a football?? Its about the right size..... Good luck on the TURP report, Randall!!!!
++ So many responses, so little time. Oh, I forgot, we have until 2003! WHEW! At any rate, let's get on with it: 1. Freeman, these fellows are obviously not (choke) consuming their dawgs; we can see their K-9's in the photos. But the litter...those poor puppies...! 2. Tom, OK, I agree we should "move on". Therefore, this weekend I am going to scan a photo of myself with...er...my CAT! Yes, it's true; a dog lover such as myself has been reduced to harboring a feline. No pussy jokes, Freeman. 3. Ted, you have precipitated a challenge. On the morrow (Friday), I shall order a certain mass of pure chromium ingots from a reliable company in New Jersey. When aforementioned ingots arrive at my lab in Boston(Monday), I am going to weigh said ingots upon the lab balance, recording displayed mass thereof. Then, I shall submerse those Cr ingots within measured, ambient, and agitated volumes of two grades of HCl (22Be PC Grade and "Hardware Store" Grade). I will then analyze said solutions visibly, titrimetrically and spectrophotometrically. Expect the values of my results to be entered upon this site late next week. OK, I'm goin' in! Cover me! Randy Fowler
++ Ok Marc I am seeking some tech help as to how to submit my photos but I assure you the Dawg photo is on the way. As to making a determination about the Chrome becoming Hex in an HCL media I'll let someone else enter the fray, Or let Randy finish his own testing. As I see this so far it is an oxidation/reduction reaction...While the chrome has been oxidized to Hexavalent, Randy has been reduced to name calling. Either case this is the same professionalism and seriousness that I run my business.
++ Our webmaster Kate, a doglover who has otherwise established a standard of only printing a person's picture once on each letter, has already printed Rusty's pic 5 times here. So I guess she has already decided which dog is the cutest. I guess that contest is actually over anyway as this thread seems
to be about to veer off towards who has the meanest junkyard dog
rather than the cutest I'm betting on Tom's for this round. And I'm betting on tri-chrome in the HCl, Randall; but I'd rather know than guess, so I appreciate your proposed test! As for the color of HCl, I've visited plating shops for 30+ years but never personally made up an HCl dip. I've never seen it any color but light amber, but I guess I'm always seeing it when there's already a lot of iron in it. But it does make sense that it should be clear.
++ I know, Marc. Right after I clicked on the SUBMIT button, I realized that my response was a little too "literal". We are both, apparently, card-carrying members of the American Satire camp! Secondly, Marc, a plated deposit of chromium metal is composed of neutral chromium atoms, regardless of the solution in which said deposit is plated. Direct current (electrolytic) plating turns the chromium ions that are floating and bouncing around in the tank into "natural" metal; they (the ions-turned-atoms) are neither trivalent nor hexavalent when they bond to a component base-metal. The power supply donates enough electrons to each chromium ion in the bath to balance it's charge and turn it back into "good ol' metal". And thanks for wishing me luck on the TURP. Luck is exactly what I'll need. Haven't done one of these since '96! Now for the thechnical stuff. Rather than order the Cr ingots, I opted for an approach which would more accurately duplicate Steve's scenario. This morning I rummaged through the maintenance department until I found a lone, off-brand, chrome-over-steel plated socket. I then exposed this socket to submersion in hydrochloric acid, then neutralized and analyzed the acid afterwards. The results are as follows: * Mass of socket (M1): 8.65 grams On Monday, I will analyze the prepared sample for TOTAL chromium. Any takers on whether or not CrIII is in there...hmmmm? And people accuse chemists of having no life! HA! Randy Fowler
++ N...Name calling?! Oh, you mean "smart alec". Oh, OK, never mind. Randy Fowler
++ CORRECTION! Upon reviewing my notes, I have observed one volume discrepancy: The original volume of concentrated HCl was 50 mL, not 25 mL, as reported earlier. The dilution ratio would, therefore, be 20:1, not 40:1 as I was calculating when I made the 01/11/02 entry. This would change the adjusted Cr+6 concentration to 1 mg/L, rather than 2 mg/L (or 0.5% of the total metal dissolved, as opposed to 1.0%). All other measurements and values remain constant. Chow! Randy Fowler
++ Upon leaving the gym this afternoon, I decided to make the 40 minute trek to Boston to finish my analysis of the afore-prepared sample. The results, along with other observations, are listed as follows: 1. The chemical formula for chromium chloride is CrCl3.6H20. Synonyms (consult your local MSDS sheet) include Chromium (III) Chloride Hexahydrate. The "hexa" only means that 6 molecules of water remained attached to the chromium chloride compound following the evaporation process. The Cl3 indicates that the Cr cation was raised unto it's TRIVALENT state by hydrochloric acid. Not unto it's hexavalent state. As I stated in an earlier entry, hydrochloric acid raises chromium metal only unto it's trivalent state; an active (unstable) oxidizer is required to raise it from it's trivalent unto it's hexavalent state. 2. The results of my total analysis of the prepared HCl stripping solution are as follows: * Of the total 200 mg of metal stripped from the socket, 115 mg (57.5%) were detected as trivalent (III) chromium, 84 mg (42%) were detected as Fe+ iron, 1 mg (0.5%) was detected as hexavalent CrVI chromium. I lay the fruits of my labor at your feet, my dear colleagues, and such with, beg your approval. Truly, Randy Fowler
++ BRAVO RANDALL!!!! You went way beyond the call of duty, and I appreciate your detailed explanation of how chrome plating works..believe it or not.. I learned alot out of a simple question on how to remove chrome from a motorcycle. And Jon..them thar "weiner dogs" were originally bred for huntin wabbits (shhhhhh, be verwy, verwy, quiet), so your pooch meets with my approval (I'm sure you were losing sleep at night wondering at my opinion). One final question on this chrome stripping thing. I've seen chrome plating peel off over time. If I understand Randall correctly, these peeled off flakes are now a "natural" metal. Would that mean that these flakes would pass a TCLP test? Have a great day guys..I'm off to the "pulling rice" letter (I just cant pass up an opportunity to be a "smart-alec").
++ "Hydrochloric Acid: Such an effective compound, you can...STRIP YOUR CHROME-PLATED PARTS THIS AFTERNOON...ENTERTAIN GUESTS TONIGHT!" Have a good one, guys. Randy Fowler
++ Randy, Good work. I bow my humbled self before you. I may however have just one more entry to this next week. Until then. Regards, Jon Quirt
++ Hmmmm...alas..I guess, this thread (like all good things) has come to an end. However..even though the discussion got a little "dogged" at times, I, for one, learned alot. So I'm not too sure the silly icon is appropriate. Once again, a big thank you to Randy for his efforts..and, I got that cold one on ice for ya bud!!!
++ Freeman Newton wanted us to see what he considers the top dog of this letter.
++ Wow what a dazzler this thread has been. Thanks to Freeman for pointing out this one. I feel cheated that I was not a member of this group in time to contribute. I heard a rumor that the poor b******d who wanted to refurbish his bike actually sold it and bought a dog. I have learned a huge amount from this interchange. Randy Fowler admitted in public that he has a CAT. I think he
should be kicked off this site........oh yeh. Didn't he say he went
from the gym up to Boston.......ooops. Guess he works out too. Have a great day and thank you all for a lot of smiles I got from these posts. PS I have got a Pit Bull (American Staffordshire Bull Terrier). She is the sweetest little dog with a beautiful nature. She is the hit of every party she is taken to and she goes to a lot. It ticks me off. She is far more popular than I am. Hrumph John Holroyd
++ Hey Mr. Holroyd, Right now Randy Fowler is laughing and shaking and weeping at your entry! I feel so good I could just drop kick Rocky (my CAT) into the living room! Please mess with Randy Fowler; gives me a "spring board"! Perhaps another letter, another time. Thanks! Randy Fowler
++ Hey Randy, That one had me chuckling pretty good too!!! I replied to the Superbowl thread, but I think my note was deemed inappropriate, as it wasnt published. Sigh.. sometimes I'm not the most politically correct guy in the world.
++ Hey Marc, As a member of the RNC, political "correctness" (correctness?...HA!) does not define my profile, either! How are the gals in Idaho? This hunter and fisher from the PC "Commonwealth" of MA may just want to make a move! Talk to ya' "late-ah"! Randy Fowler
++ Ahhh...the gals of Idaho, ya gotta luvem!!! And.. whats REALLY nice is they understand a mans need to hunt and fish (Idahos hunting and fishing is surpassed only by Alaska, in my humble, if somewhat biased, opinion).
++ It kind of makes me long for the days when we chatted about our dogs.
++ Tom, Might I remind you..that on Jan 9th (scroll up), that you called for "The end of the facinating, if somewhat disgusting, repartee about dogs". Dayum...only 10 months and a week or so till 2003!!!! Can we actually keep this one going that long?
++ Dogs! Did someone say something about dogs? I'll take a piece of that, oh yeah I still have to follow up from my input of Jan 15, 2002, (I'm thinking I'll only be giving Randy a chance to say told you so, but I deserve it.) Yes this thread will live on to at least 2003.
++ Once a long time ago I was told by a teacher to all ways read the question then answer it, then read the answer to check you have answered the question. The answer to the question is &endash; You can make hydrochloric acid by adding concentrated sulphuric acid to common salt and bubbling the hydrogen chloride gas into water where it will form hydrochloric acid. However I would say this is probably as dangerous doing as making mixture of sulphuric and nitric acids adding glycerine pouring the lot into a large volume of water and scooping the explosive nitro-glycerine off the bottom. I tell you to do neither of the two above chemical reactions. Getting back to the real world if you still read this page (and why not as it has it all comedy, chemistry, dogs and some good advice) You only say that the parts are poorly chrome plated not when or where they were chrome plated. Reworking the parts your self is fine in that you can get the chrome off using brick cleaner but then what next? You will probably be left with an under coat which the only possible option to you could be to polish off with a buff on an electric drill which may then effect the parts, you would probably polish off the edges, drag holes and generally make a mess or at least I would. If you get through this you will be left with bare part which you will want chrome on once more so you have to go to a finishing house to have done anyway. Try the job shop listing on the home page and you will find someone who will be able to strip the parts back and re-plate them. Now that is done time for me to play catch up on the rest of the stuff Muritic acid is the old trivial name for hydrochloric acid just as caustic soda is sodium hydroxide (some names take longer to die than others, or it may be the users of the names take longer to die). The analysis of the stripping was of interest to me but I have had the thought are the results posted as elemental chrome and iron as there may be further reactions, I am away from my table of electrode potentials but the thought which I had is &endash; Is the iron coming off as Fe 2+ and getting oxidised to Fe 3+ by any Cr 6+ which is present which would thus be reduced to Cr 3+. However away from my electrode potentials and atomic weights I can not do the math to see if it is even possible. The other simple answer which I will try once I finish my holiday is to check our hydrochloric chrome strip for Cr 6+. As they say leave the best to last and here are the pooch pictures. (Check with Ted but I think I lead the way here when I first sent in the picture of my two dogs Harvest (Harvey) and Griffin (Griff) asleep on the sofa with me)
For those who might be interested these are cross breed Whippet and Hungarian Vizsla. From the Vizsla they have their colouration, good noses, and tendency to chew anything and everything from the Whippet they have general build and ability to run like the wind. They were rescued from the streets of Wales so I have no history from them and they are about 12 months old. I am biased of course but they are the best dogs in the UK on this site. I hope this helps the letter run for a couple more weeks as I have had a good laugh reading it and it has got my mind going on the chrome strip side as well. Hope all of you are well and will mark this as the page to read.
++ Hmmm, so you say that I could make hydrochloric acid by using sulfuric acid and common salt. Can anybody tell me how to make sulfuric acid? Perhaps it involves the use of copper irridium coins and rice... Bill Mingarell
+++++ I'm a newcomer here but, I was in a classroom with approximately 15 open beakers with Hydrochloric acid in them and, rest assured, it is not that noxious and choking. Secondly, whoever said that baking soda would get rid of the acid, they're technically right. The baking soda, being a base, will neutralize the acid admirably (particularly with the water in there as well). And, as dangerous as dumping leftover stomach acid down the drain sounds, I'm almost positive that the numerous filtering technologies that are used would take it all out. Besides, hydrogen peroxide and bleach are used to clean public water anyway. This brings me to my question though. Can anyone tell me the procedure for making HCL? If not then can someone point me in the right direction? I know it's the combination of Bleach and Hydrogen Peroxide but I don't know how much of either one to use. I would buy the muriatic acid (or whatever you called it) but I need the full acid. Putting water in the acid causes the acid to neutralize a little bit. Tim Hamilton
+++++ Strong hydrochloric acid is readily available from most chemical suppliers for shipment to any industrial facility, you don't have to make it, Tim. Commercially it's manufactured by the direct combination of hydrogen and chlorine gases, which is something you simply can't do at home. In the lab, as previously mentioned, it can be made from boiling sulfuric acid and table salt. Vitalized Chemistry by Dorin will show you the lab setup to do this. Your assertion that it is not noxious and choking is incorrect though, and is based on limited data in a specific circumstance. There is a big difference in the rate of evolution of a gas depending on whether a liquid sits stagnant in a beaker vs. being splashed around. Shake hot water in a cocktail shaker set to appreciate this. Don't shake hydrochloric acid in the shaker set; you'll be knocked over by the noxious and choking fumes :-) Hydrochloric acid differs from stomach acid not only in concentration and volume, but also because of the heavy metals dissolved in it by the stripping reactions we're talking about, which make it a toxic waste. Hydrochloric acid is not made by mixing bleach (NaOCl) and hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), but experimenting by mixing bleach with things is very dangerous because of the strong possibility of releasing chlorine gas, so be careful.
March 5, 2006 Would you have guessed this thread would advance into 2006? Found it by looking for entries on HCl - as an amateur mineral collector I want to assemble my own field test kit & didn't know what HCl was, nor what a "base" would be ... Very funny & intellectual page: love it! ***I think Marc's objection to the proposed used acid going down the drain wasn't necessarily about the acid itself, but the toxic metal byproducts of the stripping that would be in it *** .... As for cutest dog... My daughter's dog is a 6.5 Yorkie who really looks like a silky - I love little dogs now that I know him ... All dogs are cool & cats are cool too, for the dogs to chase, ya know ... I am partial to the short hairs presented here. Kate Miller
May 7, 2007 Looking For Info on stripping Chrome Of Bike parts, stumbled on
this Thread. Ray Bernache
August 19, 2007 Hey everybody, Randy Fowler
September 10, 2007 I dont worry about neutralized Hcl hydrochloric acid down the drain if done safely and propery. acid + base = salts, example hydrochloric acid + sodium hydroxide (caustic soda) = sodium Chloride (table salt) note acid and base both very strong can burn ect are neutralized to something we eat, now kids, salt is cheap and if your gonna eat it, buy it. your healthcare is not cheap. as far as removing chrome ---as far as I know chromium is a very deadly poison and the sewers go back to our water supplys where we get a drink, wish people would learn this from centurys of diseases and cancer ect we dont teach it or dont care??? my advice go to junk yard ect get anothetr bike part and help keep us all healthy, Richard Butcher
October 16, 2007 You asked a simple question, and instead of just giving you an
answer, it seems that the control freaks decided to pass judgement on
your intelligence and to proceed to instruct you on the "correctness"
of your application. Obviously, some need to pontificate. There is an
old maxim:"don't throw your pearls before swine." Any idea is a
pearl, and who knows. . . you may in your experiments concock a
better way of doing things. It's certainly been done before! Thomas L [name deleted for privacy by editor] Ph.D.
October 16, 2007 Doc, what Steve actually said was "I am trying to strip my motorcycle parts down that have been poorly chrome-plated . . ." Early responses including the very first one answered his question of how to strip his motorcycle parts. While your response may help him make hydrochloric acid (and generate toxic waste), it won't help him strip the nickel-chrome plating from his motorcycle parts because hydrochloric acid doesn't dissolve nickel, which is 99 percent of the plating. A lot of people had a lot of fun here, and not at Steve's expense either. So I guess each reader will decide for themself which posting in this thread "passes judgment" and comprises the best example of a "need to pontificate".
December 2, 2007 I'm a hobbyist and restorer of old cars and motorcycles . Lately I dipped parts from the interior of a door in muriatic acid for a short period of time and they came out looking like new ! I think the parts such as window channels and door latches are cad plated , but not sure . My idea is that since the parts are somewhat protected from the elements , they only have a slight surface layer of rust or oxidation . By dipping for a short period of time , the cad plating is not seriously damaged ? As always I rinse the parts with water and as always the part starts to oxidize immediately - a major disappointment , considering how beautiful they looked when pulled out of the dip . I know from experience there's no chance of stopping oxidation after using muriatic acid on bare metal , but in this case the plating looked unphased . Is there a way to wash off the muriatic acid with something other than water . I am assuming the water is starting the oxidation . If the plating is intact is the oxidation just the residue laying on top of the plating ? On a few parts I sprayed clear lacquer over the rinsed plating and it seemed to prevent any further oxidation , however is wasn't as nice and silvery as when pulled out of the muriatic acid dip . Any help would greatly be appreciated ! Skip Skip Rec
December 3, 2007 Skip, you are right that hydrochloric acid removes rust very quickly but, in turn, leads to flash rusting. Maybe a dip into or wipe with Naval Jelly [link is to product info at Amazon] will solve the problem. Good luck and please let us know.
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